My comment on token's recent blog:
http://open.salon.com/blog/token/2014/07/13/open_call-_death_threats_on_os-_should_we_muzzle_tr_ig
[r] I just rated this thread because, who is it down below, joisey shore, is using the rating revelations which should be an honor system at open salon and not be revealed and it is not okay for members imho TO EXPLORE OR REVEAL RATINGS, THEY SHOULD BE ANONYMOUS AND A RIGHT OF OURS IF WE DON'T COMMENT BUT SIMPLY RATE to be left alone. So that kind of McCarthyism from the 50s should not fly here, and I'm thinking I should not be the only one objecting to clique gangsta tactics.
I don't know what exactly went down between Token and trig. But it has obviously ended in a very profound place. With Token taking a very serious stance. Asserting that he has been threatened with violence and believing he has been threatened with mortal violence.
This is not a joke. Or should not be.
This is an opportunity for some mature self-governance and some conflict resolution with Token and Trig and significantly the rest of us members of this community.
This is an opportunity for Token and Trig to make peace and be willing to DETACH for their greater good and for the rest of ours.
I am asking you directly Trig, to stop pouring gasoline on the fire re Token, and stop applying salt on his wounds. And for the rest of your cronies, long time or in this fight, to back off and stop their schadenfreude. I am asking you to guarantee that you intend no harm to Token, you or your son, and that you won't go there again. And to say it with conviction. Please.
Open salon's slug fests are a lot more than "dust ups" and most of us know how ugly they can get and should not, in this case, as some others have been, swept under the collective rug which from often what happens begats casualties -- deep bitterness and lost members. Wounded people, some who have limped away from this site absolutely stunned by the capacity for inhumanity and also a front row seat to dehumaniziing group behavior in which survival of the fittest or the cruelest posse wins. And people one trusted simply looked away in other cases and let justice circle the bowl.
This isn't the best way.
Token if Trig retracts what he says without menacing and with sincerity to do no harm to you and a willingness to respect the site and stay away from yours, will you also back away and please stay on the site. I know you are feeling raw and piled on. I have been there. But would you also agree not to follow up on a legal pursuit of this matter?
I know defending one's honor, whether with support or not, is vital to the human spirit.
I know a willingness to compromise, a willingness to sacrifice, a willingness to stop an interchange that is intimately personal between two people and which begins to ripple outward because of its extreme emotionalism is hard to stop. Look at the state of this bloody world. And then the allies of the participants begin to bloody each other and then their cronies get involved protectively and then they start bloodying cronies of others on the other side. It becomes a bloody and bitter mess.
Please, guys, end it.
Please promise to stay off each other's blogs. And please the rest of us who are concerned or who are revving up for the nasty escalation of a sustained for a bit slug fest decide not to go there.
Let's us display maturity as well. Even with some righteous bitterness in a bunch of hearts -- let's STFU. We can do it.
And maybe, maybe, let's tamp down the ugly bullying on open salon. Because it does get ugly and dangerous and it is not okay. Debate is enjoyable and exciting. Cronying up can feel good and can be fine. But there is a line that does get crossed and when it does let's as a group acknowledge it and let's help end it. It is a slippery slope we have all been on.
The Token and trig slope goes deep and steep and obviously has been building long before the triggering incident.
Let's ask each other and the participants to go a more humanist way.
Please.
My two cents.
best, libby
I don't know what exactly went down between Token and trig. But it has obviously ended in a very profound place. With Token taking a very serious stance. Asserting that he has been threatened with violence and believing he has been threatened with mortal violence.
This is not a joke. Or should not be.
This is an opportunity for some mature self-governance and some conflict resolution with Token and Trig and significantly the rest of us members of this community.
This is an opportunity for Token and Trig to make peace and be willing to DETACH for their greater good and for the rest of ours.
I am asking you directly Trig, to stop pouring gasoline on the fire re Token, and stop applying salt on his wounds. And for the rest of your cronies, long time or in this fight, to back off and stop their schadenfreude. I am asking you to guarantee that you intend no harm to Token, you or your son, and that you won't go there again. And to say it with conviction. Please.
Open salon's slug fests are a lot more than "dust ups" and most of us know how ugly they can get and should not, in this case, as some others have been, swept under the collective rug which from often what happens begats casualties -- deep bitterness and lost members. Wounded people, some who have limped away from this site absolutely stunned by the capacity for inhumanity and also a front row seat to dehumaniziing group behavior in which survival of the fittest or the cruelest posse wins. And people one trusted simply looked away in other cases and let justice circle the bowl.
This isn't the best way.
Token if Trig retracts what he says without menacing and with sincerity to do no harm to you and a willingness to respect the site and stay away from yours, will you also back away and please stay on the site. I know you are feeling raw and piled on. I have been there. But would you also agree not to follow up on a legal pursuit of this matter?
I know defending one's honor, whether with support or not, is vital to the human spirit.
I know a willingness to compromise, a willingness to sacrifice, a willingness to stop an interchange that is intimately personal between two people and which begins to ripple outward because of its extreme emotionalism is hard to stop. Look at the state of this bloody world. And then the allies of the participants begin to bloody each other and then their cronies get involved protectively and then they start bloodying cronies of others on the other side. It becomes a bloody and bitter mess.
Please, guys, end it.
Please promise to stay off each other's blogs. And please the rest of us who are concerned or who are revving up for the nasty escalation of a sustained for a bit slug fest decide not to go there.
Let's us display maturity as well. Even with some righteous bitterness in a bunch of hearts -- let's STFU. We can do it.
And maybe, maybe, let's tamp down the ugly bullying on open salon. Because it does get ugly and dangerous and it is not okay. Debate is enjoyable and exciting. Cronying up can feel good and can be fine. But there is a line that does get crossed and when it does let's as a group acknowledge it and let's help end it. It is a slippery slope we have all been on.
The Token and trig slope goes deep and steep and obviously has been building long before the triggering incident.
Let's ask each other and the participants to go a more humanist way.
Please.
My two cents.
best, libby
--------------
Libby, I agree with a lot of what you say.
I've been thinking along the same lines - that these divisions have gone too far and if we're going to remain in this same space, often crossing paths because admittedly there are topics that fascinating and we will grativate to them. So I think it's important to try to figure a way to interact and disagree with one another without becoming impossibly insulting and abusive. Because this is where it's all going - to hell in a handbasket. No one wants to be continuously insulted and abused or watch someone else treated badly. Bad feelings ensue. And for what? What point is made other than we're no longer goddamned civilized here.
We CAN disagree without becoming moral enemies.
I've been thinking along the same lines - that these divisions have gone too far and if we're going to remain in this same space, often crossing paths because admittedly there are topics that fascinating and we will grativate to them. So I think it's important to try to figure a way to interact and disagree with one another without becoming impossibly insulting and abusive. Because this is where it's all going - to hell in a handbasket. No one wants to be continuously insulted and abused or watch someone else treated badly. Bad feelings ensue. And for what? What point is made other than we're no longer goddamned civilized here.
We CAN disagree without becoming moral enemies.
R & R
Largely w Lib and FM here.
The infantilism displayed on that thread, the allegations, the threats, as awful as they are (and they're just as Libby characterizes them) are of a kind not altogether different from what resulted from personalities-based posts and comment-threads in the days many people claim were Open's best times.
It's all unworthy of writers.
The infantilism displayed on that thread, the allegations, the threats, as awful as they are (and they're just as Libby characterizes them) are of a kind not altogether different from what resulted from personalities-based posts and comment-threads in the days many people claim were Open's best times.
It's all unworthy of writers.
rated
sb mortal enemies, but moral enemies kind of works too.
Aren't the identities of who rated what public knowledge?
Libby
Thanks for posting this.
I'll re post what I commented to you on the original:
thank you for getting it.
I would enjoy reading and engaging you in your views much more often, except that OS has no rules and has degenerated into a foul smelling "knife fight' ( much like the rest of the country and it's politics)
I don't spend time here anymore
Just came back to reclaim Rudy and stick in my Token
I'm running my own Chautauqua elsewhere, by invitation only- you're invited if you wish to come, PM me-
So, to sum up
we have established that I (Token) am an old and decrepit windbag who is foul tempered and argues with everyone, and that tr ig KNOWS that, not only knows it, but points it out at any opporunity.
you are judged by the qualityof those you feel threatened enough to fight, or enough "above" to ridicule.
We're seeing about eye to eye tr ig
down in the mud
I like it fine- how about you?
------------------------------------------------------
I just don't feel much like engaging in petty bullshit with tr ig and Bill Beck and Joisey Shore, etc, anymore, their shit isn't wrth the price of admission to OS anymore- only the only slots available are the existing ones.....
It's not that tr ig frighten's me, it just isn't worth cleaning his shit out of my ears everytime I try to engage in an intelligent discussion anymore-
I don't mind a good fight, but wrestling in slop is kind of pointless, and soon looses it's amusement for any but the participants-
that's why i decided to quit being Rude- and suggected tr ig undergo a similar self transformation.
whether I spend any time here or not anymore, at least NOW someone has addressed the problem of such behavior on OS and it's result on community participation- thank you libby
Thanks for posting this.
I'll re post what I commented to you on the original:
thank you for getting it.
I would enjoy reading and engaging you in your views much more often, except that OS has no rules and has degenerated into a foul smelling "knife fight' ( much like the rest of the country and it's politics)
I don't spend time here anymore
Just came back to reclaim Rudy and stick in my Token
I'm running my own Chautauqua elsewhere, by invitation only- you're invited if you wish to come, PM me-
So, to sum up
we have established that I (Token) am an old and decrepit windbag who is foul tempered and argues with everyone, and that tr ig KNOWS that, not only knows it, but points it out at any opporunity.
you are judged by the qualityof those you feel threatened enough to fight, or enough "above" to ridicule.
We're seeing about eye to eye tr ig
down in the mud
I like it fine- how about you?
------------------------------------------------------
I just don't feel much like engaging in petty bullshit with tr ig and Bill Beck and Joisey Shore, etc, anymore, their shit isn't wrth the price of admission to OS anymore- only the only slots available are the existing ones.....
It's not that tr ig frighten's me, it just isn't worth cleaning his shit out of my ears everytime I try to engage in an intelligent discussion anymore-
I don't mind a good fight, but wrestling in slop is kind of pointless, and soon looses it's amusement for any but the participants-
that's why i decided to quit being Rude- and suggected tr ig undergo a similar self transformation.
whether I spend any time here or not anymore, at least NOW someone has addressed the problem of such behavior on OS and it's result on community participation- thank you libby
Exactly Dandylion ... ratings are public knowledge.
Cripe, the lack of knowledge about online stuff is suffocatin'
Cripe, the lack of knowledge about online stuff is suffocatin'
Libby,
I'll wait for your apology and retraction concerning whether I'm doing something sneaky or hackin'.
TinkerTink69 just a day or two ago showed people how to see who rates who. It's public knowledge. I'm simply reinforcing it because gawd knows, a lot of OSers are lazy.
I'll wait for your apology and retraction concerning whether I'm doing something sneaky or hackin'.
TinkerTink69 just a day or two ago showed people how to see who rates who. It's public knowledge. I'm simply reinforcing it because gawd knows, a lot of OSers are lazy.
Yes, I think there's been an appalling lack of death threats here at OS! Only scary part is trig is such a bad shot he'll probably miss Token and hit me.
@And nowfor something competely different:
The problem that I've found is that engaging with Bill Beck is like asking for cheese in a cheese shop- I'm sure you know which one
a deliberate waste of time.
Which wouldn't be so bad, except that tr ig delivers post to post, you can't just leave him in the cheese shop...you leaves it at your door.
The problem that I've found is that engaging with Bill Beck is like asking for cheese in a cheese shop- I'm sure you know which one
a deliberate waste of time.
Which wouldn't be so bad, except that tr ig delivers post to post, you can't just leave him in the cheese shop...you leaves it at your door.
of course, Infantilism is a migratory animal
Why would any sane person issue a death threat in public if they did not want to serve a life sentence in prison.
Personal attack posts and comments say a lot about an author, and not in a good way.
I support what Libby says. R.
Personal attack posts and comments say a lot about an author, and not in a good way.
I support what Libby says. R.
R & R. I guess we'll soon learn if anyone at OS is out there watching.
@Lyle
That is the heart of the problem- Keiko deleted the original exchange, but i have it and will post it if- tr ig actually quite often in the heat of anger make threats rthat he means seriously- or at least that have been taken seriously by quite a few people wh no longer post here it would seem...
He seems to be encouraged by the fact that he is allowwed to get away with it.
That is the heart of the problem- Keiko deleted the original exchange, but i have it and will post it if- tr ig actually quite often in the heat of anger make threats rthat he means seriously- or at least that have been taken seriously by quite a few people wh no longer post here it would seem...
He seems to be encouraged by the fact that he is allowwed to get away with it.
"...I would sincerely love to abandon all patience and principle and crush the assholes like the vermin that they are...
...The selfish, essentially, have an extortion model against the civilized, and we must carry them, and field their accusations of "child murderer," etc. Can't live with 'em, can't stuff 'em in a sack.
Bill Beck
JULY 13, 2014 10:52 PM
Seeing as how I was the one who said Beck was an apologist for the murder of children (see how he twisted and skewed what I said AGAIN?) I consider the threat of being crushed like vermin and then shoved in a sack to be a terroristic threat, especially when said in conjunction with "can't live with them..." by a person who has already implied threats of physical violence against at least two other people here on OS.
So, it's not JUST Trig (and/or token) who is doing this shit. They are just the ones today.
(funny how none of the "Elite" who are squealing about "mean people" said fuck all when it was against somebody who Beck attacked or they didn't like...
...The selfish, essentially, have an extortion model against the civilized, and we must carry them, and field their accusations of "child murderer," etc. Can't live with 'em, can't stuff 'em in a sack.
Bill Beck
JULY 13, 2014 10:52 PM
Seeing as how I was the one who said Beck was an apologist for the murder of children (see how he twisted and skewed what I said AGAIN?) I consider the threat of being crushed like vermin and then shoved in a sack to be a terroristic threat, especially when said in conjunction with "can't live with them..." by a person who has already implied threats of physical violence against at least two other people here on OS.
So, it's not JUST Trig (and/or token) who is doing this shit. They are just the ones today.
(funny how none of the "Elite" who are squealing about "mean people" said fuck all when it was against somebody who Beck attacked or they didn't like...
It's all been deleted and context is lost and now open to the revisionists.
Context is a big deal. Any person with half a brain would agree.
That leaves a few of us out of the equation, doesn't it Herr Dufus.
I mentioned a visit to Rude from my son. Rude mentions my sons' death, if he should attempt same visit (he'll be back in a couple years and I miss him). Anyone fucks with my kid, I break them in half, virtually here online, and yes, in real life if need be. Now, we all know being fairly rational and intelligent people that my son who is overseas working for ALL OF US in the US military isn't going to visit Rude, don't we. Hell, even if he was here in my living room right now he wouldn't go visit Rude. Who wants to go to Ohio? Nobody I know! I mean, nothing against Ohio but we only get so many travel opportunities and the kicking Rude's dumb ass vacation is low on the radar. Seriously.
Libby .. drop the hysterics ... puhleaze
Context is a big deal. Any person with half a brain would agree.
That leaves a few of us out of the equation, doesn't it Herr Dufus.
I mentioned a visit to Rude from my son. Rude mentions my sons' death, if he should attempt same visit (he'll be back in a couple years and I miss him). Anyone fucks with my kid, I break them in half, virtually here online, and yes, in real life if need be. Now, we all know being fairly rational and intelligent people that my son who is overseas working for ALL OF US in the US military isn't going to visit Rude, don't we. Hell, even if he was here in my living room right now he wouldn't go visit Rude. Who wants to go to Ohio? Nobody I know! I mean, nothing against Ohio but we only get so many travel opportunities and the kicking Rude's dumb ass vacation is low on the radar. Seriously.
Libby .. drop the hysterics ... puhleaze
Actaually, an edited version has just become available at:
http://open.salon.com/blog/token/2014/07/14/the_token-_trig_dustup_in_color
tr ig has the habit of letting himself get all lathered up and making things personal- I admit I bait him-
this date back a while :
http://open.salon.com/blog/token/2013/02/11/heres_what_i_was_waiting_for_trig_to_boast_about
BUT- I stopped interacting with him a whil ago- on understanding that if he stayed away from me, I'd stay away from him.
he can't help himself. first wo blogs I've posted in a while- he's there
I'd explained that I'm not BEING Rude anymore- if were gonna fight, we're either gonna fight fair, or there are no ules and someone is going to get hurt ( sorry about that, it's always tr ig....) he just can't keep it in his pants, blows his top and winds up making threats. every TIME...
Sowhen i found the last two presents from tr ig, I decided he was feeling feisty, so i went to look him up and found him at ******** 's blog-( I've deleted all third parties.) and returned his droppings.
In short, i baited and provoked the hell ut of him- which he is known for dishing out, but doesn't take well.....
Having allusion to your kid's death make you unhappy tr ig? you shouldn't make threats about his coming out to beat m up- ( the reference to the Kroger parking lot- long story- but available on blog...) He Meat that he would send /have his kid come beat me.
To which i replied more or less that if he sends a kid to battle someone who doesnt have a defense except deadly force, then you should expect him back in a box. ( paraphrase)
as expected, the tr igster Lost it......
war is HELL, tr ig- we aint going to play "Bull Run'- I'm a defenseless old man, you shell fort sumpter, expect sherman's march to the sea......
or we can avoid each other. Not even gonna consider the invitation to interact wih you again, I've tried that three or 4 times and we alwys wind up back with you thinking you can get away with your macho bullshit..
Only reason you can't?
you keep messing with me, I'll keep raising your blood pressure till you explode.
that and it really does make OS a less pleasant or safe place to blog.
so explain it to us tr ig.... do you actually MEAN you're coming out to kick my ass, or are you just being a perverse old windbag like me?
( You gonna get in fights, son, you need to watch that temper-git gets you "owned" every time)
http://open.salon.com/blog/token/2014/07/14/the_token-_trig_dustup_in_color
tr ig has the habit of letting himself get all lathered up and making things personal- I admit I bait him-
this date back a while :
http://open.salon.com/blog/token/2013/02/11/heres_what_i_was_waiting_for_trig_to_boast_about
BUT- I stopped interacting with him a whil ago- on understanding that if he stayed away from me, I'd stay away from him.
he can't help himself. first wo blogs I've posted in a while- he's there
I'd explained that I'm not BEING Rude anymore- if were gonna fight, we're either gonna fight fair, or there are no ules and someone is going to get hurt ( sorry about that, it's always tr ig....) he just can't keep it in his pants, blows his top and winds up making threats. every TIME...
Sowhen i found the last two presents from tr ig, I decided he was feeling feisty, so i went to look him up and found him at ******** 's blog-( I've deleted all third parties.) and returned his droppings.
In short, i baited and provoked the hell ut of him- which he is known for dishing out, but doesn't take well.....
Having allusion to your kid's death make you unhappy tr ig? you shouldn't make threats about his coming out to beat m up- ( the reference to the Kroger parking lot- long story- but available on blog...) He Meat that he would send /have his kid come beat me.
To which i replied more or less that if he sends a kid to battle someone who doesnt have a defense except deadly force, then you should expect him back in a box. ( paraphrase)
as expected, the tr igster Lost it......
war is HELL, tr ig- we aint going to play "Bull Run'- I'm a defenseless old man, you shell fort sumpter, expect sherman's march to the sea......
or we can avoid each other. Not even gonna consider the invitation to interact wih you again, I've tried that three or 4 times and we alwys wind up back with you thinking you can get away with your macho bullshit..
Only reason you can't?
you keep messing with me, I'll keep raising your blood pressure till you explode.
that and it really does make OS a less pleasant or safe place to blog.
so explain it to us tr ig.... do you actually MEAN you're coming out to kick my ass, or are you just being a perverse old windbag like me?
( You gonna get in fights, son, you need to watch that temper-git gets you "owned" every time)
@tr ig
So you DO affirm that your threats are empty and that you are, like me, just a harmless old windbag?
You still need to not interact withme here... I've had enough of your bullying and then worthless remorse.
deal?
So you DO affirm that your threats are empty and that you are, like me, just a harmless old windbag?
You still need to not interact withme here... I've had enough of your bullying and then worthless remorse.
deal?
does anyone
not involved
w this spat directly go to these urls to see spat-histories? really?
not involved
w this spat directly go to these urls to see spat-histories? really?
@jonathan
the peron it was intended for got the message- he's let his temper get him owned AGAIN...
I'm jut tired of being the only one here who disciplines the dog. If everyone but me lets him shit in the house, you have a pretty clear explanation of why OS is such a pleasant place these days.
the peron it was intended for got the message- he's let his temper get him owned AGAIN...
I'm jut tired of being the only one here who disciplines the dog. If everyone but me lets him shit in the house, you have a pretty clear explanation of why OS is such a pleasant place these days.
I appreciate the reasonable comments from members of this community and hope that they and others will use their influence to de-escalate an interchange that has gotten into a serious dimension.
Appreciate backing up from high escalation of both Token and Trig on this.
Can you both, Trig and Token, seriously consider and agree to NOT engage without the need for the last insulting word, to each other or anybody else right now, for that matter? "puhleaze"? If not for your own sakes for the sake of us as a community?
And can others refrain from the seemingly compulsive "egg on" and secondary violence to first OR second string participants in this?
To help stop the verbal escalation of this. Physical threats are serious. Verbal violence is also serious.
Do we need an authoritarian presence which we all know how well that works to enter stage left as an "enforcer"? Feels to me like a lose/lose scenario except for the cheap thrills of public exhibitionism of verbal abuse. Cheap in that they may not cost at least some of the individuals any consequences in them being cheerleaders in the cheap seats of beholding demonstrations of verbal cruelty on others. This I once heard cleverly called the "guppie to piranha" phenomenon -- something within the hearts of watchers who alone maybe didn't originally trigger fighting but who get off on a vicarious thrill of watching bullying and even joining in from their own safe and cowardly distances, egging things on. A "Let's you and him fight" game of the games that people play.
The blood sport of verbal abuse when it reaches this level has consequences. Losing the site even? Also demoralizing the members of the site. Discouraging participants of the site. I do believe in a collective "honor system" with civil boundaries and they are being threatened right now by several parties.
Could we lose the website over this? Who knows. Certainly we lose a sense of collective dignity, mutual collective trust and sense of security and safety in sharing on open salon.
A website of, by, and for bullies? The rest of us can tiptoe around and hope that we don't get targeted or those we care about don't get targeted for the sport of it? A wild roller-coaster in which the wishes for relative peace among many of us are mocked and ignored by the addicts of verbal and/or physical violence? Anything goes? And the "anything" gets darker and darker?
It is often hard not to get sucked in, sometimes not in self-defense, but in defense of someone else.
Letting the contempt and sarcasm go unsaid can be a huge effort, but can also be a huge gift. Thank you to those who are willing to keep things civil. Machismo can be a strong driving force clearly. Reining in machismo is much stronger and more honorable imho. Calling out unreined machismo also honorable and very much needed right now. imho.
Thanks for consideration on this.
best, libby
Appreciate backing up from high escalation of both Token and Trig on this.
Can you both, Trig and Token, seriously consider and agree to NOT engage without the need for the last insulting word, to each other or anybody else right now, for that matter? "puhleaze"? If not for your own sakes for the sake of us as a community?
And can others refrain from the seemingly compulsive "egg on" and secondary violence to first OR second string participants in this?
To help stop the verbal escalation of this. Physical threats are serious. Verbal violence is also serious.
Do we need an authoritarian presence which we all know how well that works to enter stage left as an "enforcer"? Feels to me like a lose/lose scenario except for the cheap thrills of public exhibitionism of verbal abuse. Cheap in that they may not cost at least some of the individuals any consequences in them being cheerleaders in the cheap seats of beholding demonstrations of verbal cruelty on others. This I once heard cleverly called the "guppie to piranha" phenomenon -- something within the hearts of watchers who alone maybe didn't originally trigger fighting but who get off on a vicarious thrill of watching bullying and even joining in from their own safe and cowardly distances, egging things on. A "Let's you and him fight" game of the games that people play.
The blood sport of verbal abuse when it reaches this level has consequences. Losing the site even? Also demoralizing the members of the site. Discouraging participants of the site. I do believe in a collective "honor system" with civil boundaries and they are being threatened right now by several parties.
Could we lose the website over this? Who knows. Certainly we lose a sense of collective dignity, mutual collective trust and sense of security and safety in sharing on open salon.
A website of, by, and for bullies? The rest of us can tiptoe around and hope that we don't get targeted or those we care about don't get targeted for the sport of it? A wild roller-coaster in which the wishes for relative peace among many of us are mocked and ignored by the addicts of verbal and/or physical violence? Anything goes? And the "anything" gets darker and darker?
It is often hard not to get sucked in, sometimes not in self-defense, but in defense of someone else.
Letting the contempt and sarcasm go unsaid can be a huge effort, but can also be a huge gift. Thank you to those who are willing to keep things civil. Machismo can be a strong driving force clearly. Reining in machismo is much stronger and more honorable imho. Calling out unreined machismo also honorable and very much needed right now. imho.
Thanks for consideration on this.
best, libby
libby
Sorry to comandeer your blog, but the dog needs to be taught the consequences of not curbing himself.......
hanks for providing the newspaper to whack him with.
You are invited to Chautauqua. PM me.
Sorry to comandeer your blog, but the dog needs to be taught the consequences of not curbing himself.......
hanks for providing the newspaper to whack him with.
You are invited to Chautauqua. PM me.
Hey Libby,
Just wanted to thank you for caring. No sarcasm. I hope this is all a by product of the super moon or something, but I know it's not.
For the record, seeing the recent rates has been open to anyone to see. Just like the recent comments.
I'm not going to get into arguments, but I want to point out to SBA, that she only put half the quote from Bill and it is misleading. However, SBA, I don't know if it was on purpose or you just read half of it and then blew your britches. You should go reread so you are not upset about it.
Thanks, Libby. It would be great for everyone to say 'Bygones'.
/r.
Just wanted to thank you for caring. No sarcasm. I hope this is all a by product of the super moon or something, but I know it's not.
For the record, seeing the recent rates has been open to anyone to see. Just like the recent comments.
I'm not going to get into arguments, but I want to point out to SBA, that she only put half the quote from Bill and it is misleading. However, SBA, I don't know if it was on purpose or you just read half of it and then blew your britches. You should go reread so you are not upset about it.
Thanks, Libby. It would be great for everyone to say 'Bygones'.
/r.
To be honest Libby, there's a little too much calling out.
Lets not. Let's let this rest for a while. Lets all lick our wounds or puff up our muscles at the gym or whatever passes for telling yourself you're the good one. You're not if you're dumping. I've dumped. I'll say it. I've dumped and I'VE LAUGHED and I've dumped. Shame on me if I've added to this appalling situation in any way. we don't have to be best pals but we can be respectful.
I don't LOVE love OS, but damn it I like it a whole lot and I sure as hell don't want to lose it becuase of stupid pissing contests. It's got a lot of people I admire. People who make me think. But most importantly people who fascinate me.
okay. situation is at critical mass. lets save the day. lets shut our pie holes! not ALL the time. but sometimes. especially if we're spewing.
end of rant.
Lets not. Let's let this rest for a while. Lets all lick our wounds or puff up our muscles at the gym or whatever passes for telling yourself you're the good one. You're not if you're dumping. I've dumped. I'll say it. I've dumped and I'VE LAUGHED and I've dumped. Shame on me if I've added to this appalling situation in any way. we don't have to be best pals but we can be respectful.
I don't LOVE love OS, but damn it I like it a whole lot and I sure as hell don't want to lose it becuase of stupid pissing contests. It's got a lot of people I admire. People who make me think. But most importantly people who fascinate me.
okay. situation is at critical mass. lets save the day. lets shut our pie holes! not ALL the time. but sometimes. especially if we're spewing.
end of rant.
Not every village needs an idiot Libby, but most villages have one.
Ours is Rude/Token/Herr Austin. His moronic nephew, supporter, and mental equal Steve Kenny no longer posts here at OS and he-Token is a terrible writer so gets not much love here unless he plays the "tr ig victim" card .. so he plays it often. It's the one and only way he gets a little attention around here, and there is nothing so NOT warm and fuzzy as a racist dumbass borderline Nazi seeking attention. As to being nice... well, fuck that. Grow some thicker skin sensitive sheeple, or get off the interwebz. When you hit PUBLISH on either your attempts a writing in blog form, or in comments, you have entered the big scary world of online. I will be nice to those that demand respect due to what they put out here in writing, and critical of those that should have thought better beforehand. THAT will never change.
If you can't handle public internet forums, get a new hobby, like basket weaving maybe. I have not one single iota of sympathy for you.
Ours is Rude/Token/Herr Austin. His moronic nephew, supporter, and mental equal Steve Kenny no longer posts here at OS and he-Token is a terrible writer so gets not much love here unless he plays the "tr ig victim" card .. so he plays it often. It's the one and only way he gets a little attention around here, and there is nothing so NOT warm and fuzzy as a racist dumbass borderline Nazi seeking attention. As to being nice... well, fuck that. Grow some thicker skin sensitive sheeple, or get off the interwebz. When you hit PUBLISH on either your attempts a writing in blog form, or in comments, you have entered the big scary world of online. I will be nice to those that demand respect due to what they put out here in writing, and critical of those that should have thought better beforehand. THAT will never change.
If you can't handle public internet forums, get a new hobby, like basket weaving maybe. I have not one single iota of sympathy for you.
after reading your comment:
I gave up trying to not interact with tr ig a while ago, but the problem is that other people here still get chewed by him...
I grew up fighting for want of any other amusement- I don't recommend it, but it makes the crap tr ig puts out seem pretty petty- until you've watched him and Beck double team and drive out several good people I'm aware of, and who knows how many I don't know about.
It would delight me to never interact with tr ig or Beck again, they are at best a waste of time i don't have a whole lot left of.
But when I cannot even reasonably carry on a discussion with you, even though we differ greatly, not because we are unreasonable, but because Beck and tr ig come barking .... sorry, I'm not going to be (merely) RUDE anymore.
I'm not going to interact with tr ig or Beck again,unless they choose to... And then I will simply delete.
BUT.... I reserve the right ANY TIME I see tr ig doing his thing on someone like Misty, or others, I 'm not going to be rude, I'm going to be brutal.
Again, thank you for this. Hopefully we can have some disturbance free discussion in the near future.
I gave up trying to not interact with tr ig a while ago, but the problem is that other people here still get chewed by him...
I grew up fighting for want of any other amusement- I don't recommend it, but it makes the crap tr ig puts out seem pretty petty- until you've watched him and Beck double team and drive out several good people I'm aware of, and who knows how many I don't know about.
It would delight me to never interact with tr ig or Beck again, they are at best a waste of time i don't have a whole lot left of.
But when I cannot even reasonably carry on a discussion with you, even though we differ greatly, not because we are unreasonable, but because Beck and tr ig come barking .... sorry, I'm not going to be (merely) RUDE anymore.
I'm not going to interact with tr ig or Beck again,unless they choose to... And then I will simply delete.
BUT.... I reserve the right ANY TIME I see tr ig doing his thing on someone like Misty, or others, I 'm not going to be rude, I'm going to be brutal.
Again, thank you for this. Hopefully we can have some disturbance free discussion in the near future.
onislandtime, STFU will ya?
I only put half the quote because it had Beck's usual 29+ paragraphs of bullshit in the middle.
This is the pertinent part to my comment. Are you denying he said that? (along with your cheap shot bullshit about my britches?)
I only put half the quote because it had Beck's usual 29+ paragraphs of bullshit in the middle.
This is the pertinent part to my comment. Are you denying he said that? (along with your cheap shot bullshit about my britches?)
Amy, I'll STFU when you learn to read. It can be a trade. Here:
..."Too patient and too principled?" I would sincerely love to abandon all patience and principle and crush the assholes like the vermin that they are. The problem with that is, it is self defeating. The point of the principles is to elevate our conditions of life from the brutal, self serving nature that would exist without civilization....
Do you understand this? It says yes, I lose my temper and want to fight, but it is our principals against that which make us civilized people.
So let's all get civilized. It will be fun.
..."Too patient and too principled?" I would sincerely love to abandon all patience and principle and crush the assholes like the vermin that they are. The problem with that is, it is self defeating. The point of the principles is to elevate our conditions of life from the brutal, self serving nature that would exist without civilization....
Do you understand this? It says yes, I lose my temper and want to fight, but it is our principals against that which make us civilized people.
So let's all get civilized. It will be fun.
Libby
I won't interact with tr ig again here, but I do need to know whether the tripe he is now sprouting comes from his manly macho temper or his reasoned old windbag self-
he needs to quit refering to me at all if he doesn't want his ass dragged through another gutter like this one....
Got it tr ig?
You being good doggy now,
keep it that way
Stay "non threatening"
I won't interact with tr ig again here, but I do need to know whether the tripe he is now sprouting comes from his manly macho temper or his reasoned old windbag self-
he needs to quit refering to me at all if he doesn't want his ass dragged through another gutter like this one....
Got it tr ig?
You being good doggy now,
keep it that way
Stay "non threatening"
Suck my dick Rude ... anything else?
oh hell!
Generalismo! Please put away your dick!!!
Generalismo! Please put away your dick!!!
If I see you at Kroger parking lot I'll blow you over -
If I see you at the produce aisle I'll toss you in with the raisins
and no one will recognize the difference.
If you were my cell mate, you'd be my bitch.
If you were my housemate, you'd roll my doobs and get my brews.
If I see you at the produce aisle I'll toss you in with the raisins
and no one will recognize the difference.
If you were my cell mate, you'd be my bitch.
If you were my housemate, you'd roll my doobs and get my brews.
It's the real ME Keiko! I've been here for years!
Cowgirl...the people involved in this spat take comments suggesting this is all unworthy of us...as 'taking sides'.
great bullshit response Jon! I read it four times, then four times again ... emerging just as baffled. Good form.
Thank you, Trig.
I've steered clear of this one, can't really comment because I'm not sure what's going on except I've had lunch with trig and asia and I can't believe that trig would seriously threaten anybody's life, maybe a punch in the nose, but mortal danger??? Asia would kick his ass. Somebody's blowing smoke.
R&R
R&R
I guess the good news is that most of the people that used to pile in to dust ups and make people leave are gone themselves, so this shouldn't degenerate too much further.
Libby, thanks for trying but some people like to be blowhards. The best thing we can do is leave them to splash about in their mud and go find something better to do. We try, we make our objection known, and we wander off. At least those people that used to pile in aren't here to eviscerate anyone.
Take care.
Libby, thanks for trying but some people like to be blowhards. The best thing we can do is leave them to splash about in their mud and go find something better to do. We try, we make our objection known, and we wander off. At least those people that used to pile in aren't here to eviscerate anyone.
Take care.
As the person here who knows him best, he's harmless, except around breakables perhaps, and this seems like a lot of wasted energy. But maybe that's just me.
Thank you
Thank you
That would be him as in trig.
So tr ig- you want me to be your bitch? RW says then i could get a restraining order against you...
are you proposing?
Now for the first time I'll ask you the queston you'll hear everytime I see you from now on, so think of a good answer,
Which trig is speaking, the Macho Bullshit Cowboy Trig who can't control himself and threatens people, or the Harmless Old Windbag Trig, who comes back and remorsefully apologises because someone took him seriously?( Shucks, libby, I ain't gonna waste no vacation time goin to OHIO.......who woulda ever thunk it?)
You aren't any trouble to ride hard and put away wet, trig
Just get kinda aggravated that you keep needing it.
Think on your answer, trig.
@Asia
You claim him asia, so he's your problem-he'll keep needing someone to keep him out of trouble. , but if you want your dog to keep from working himself into a heart attack , keep him on a leash.
see you all later
are you proposing?
Now for the first time I'll ask you the queston you'll hear everytime I see you from now on, so think of a good answer,
Which trig is speaking, the Macho Bullshit Cowboy Trig who can't control himself and threatens people, or the Harmless Old Windbag Trig, who comes back and remorsefully apologises because someone took him seriously?( Shucks, libby, I ain't gonna waste no vacation time goin to OHIO.......who woulda ever thunk it?)
You aren't any trouble to ride hard and put away wet, trig
Just get kinda aggravated that you keep needing it.
Think on your answer, trig.
@Asia
You claim him asia, so he's your problem-he'll keep needing someone to keep him out of trouble. , but if you want your dog to keep from working himself into a heart attack , keep him on a leash.
see you all later
@Jonathan
In this case, I'm aggressively being an asshole, something I used to do professionally. tr ig is just an asshole from the crowd who's come out to help demonstrate asshole techniques:
Alltogether now :
What's this called?
a couple of Assholes making macho bullshit asshole talk at each other!!!!!
What should you do when you see it ?
No, not "take sides"
The correct answer is
Stay out of it and leave such shows to us professionals.
Amateurs like tr ig always wind up loosing their tempers and that's when someone gets hurt, (trig just can't seem to remember that when he gets into a piss fight with me, HE's the one who gets "hurt")- (loses his temper, spikes his blood pressure , then he needs a few "stiff ones" to calm him down before he can sleep.... ( And No, saying that is NOT homophobic,... tr ig has just admitted his homoerotic need for a Bitch, so it is none of my business who gives him the stiff one, or how....I'm just remarking on his condition.)
In this case, I'm aggressively being an asshole, something I used to do professionally. tr ig is just an asshole from the crowd who's come out to help demonstrate asshole techniques:
Alltogether now :
What's this called?
a couple of Assholes making macho bullshit asshole talk at each other!!!!!
What should you do when you see it ?
No, not "take sides"
The correct answer is
Stay out of it and leave such shows to us professionals.
Amateurs like tr ig always wind up loosing their tempers and that's when someone gets hurt, (trig just can't seem to remember that when he gets into a piss fight with me, HE's the one who gets "hurt")- (loses his temper, spikes his blood pressure , then he needs a few "stiff ones" to calm him down before he can sleep.... ( And No, saying that is NOT homophobic,... tr ig has just admitted his homoerotic need for a Bitch, so it is none of my business who gives him the stiff one, or how....I'm just remarking on his condition.)
PS- Jonathan- i'm not saying that such bullshit asshole behavior is beneath me, hell I used to make a large chunk of my living by kowning how assholes behave- and being one.
It should be beneath the rest of you. If it were, OS would be a much better place to spend time
It should be beneath the rest of you. If it were, OS would be a much better place to spend time
I repeat the question. What is it going to be?
"A website of, by, and for bullies? The rest of us can tiptoe around and hope that we don't get targeted or those we care about don't get targeted for the sport of it? A wild roller-coaster in which the wishes for relative peace among many of us are mocked and ignored by the addicts of verbal and/or physical violence? Anything goes? And the "anything" gets darker and darker?"
Open salon as "fight club"? Anyone want to step up and be the next punching bag by daring to interfere or intervene with toxic and hurtful behavior? Anyone want to let it escalate, though, as it has been and will continue to?
Just tell the victims to get over themselves? This is the malicious culture being cultivated by the BULLIES and ENABLERS OF BULLIES who are so very proud of being bullies or proud of being cronied by bullies.
Guns and dicks. Hard for some not to bring out one or the other soon enough in cybertalk or threatened IRL. But, no it is not only about guns and dicks and we women can bring out our own toxic weapons when we lapse into bullying or cronying up with one.
I guess asking someone to walk away from an ugly fight that is toxic and jeopardizing the culture and the survival of the website is too threatening in machismo-world. Anyone not having their way about EVERYTHING -- to be challenged about their extreme and out of control behavior -- is "WHIPPED" in certain misogynistic, sadistic, anti-empathy, ego-driven orbits.
Asia, appreciate your stopping by. Seriously. You write with gallows humor, "he's harmless, except around breakables." Trig. Somehow I don't find that comforting. Neither probably does Token I'm guessing.
People are breakable. Psyches, spirits, bodies are breakable.
When you threaten death or insinuate physical violence against someone that is not right or lawful or moral. And you should be asked to be accountable and responsible for the threat.
I liked oit phrasing, "let everyone say bygones" and walk away. That is not asking for the world. It is asking for an end to this serious skirmish.
Gratuitous cruelty as sport is toxic and dangerous, whether to the direct victims or the community it grows and too often thrives in. I don't think peace and dignity-mongering is a waste of time.
best, libby
"A website of, by, and for bullies? The rest of us can tiptoe around and hope that we don't get targeted or those we care about don't get targeted for the sport of it? A wild roller-coaster in which the wishes for relative peace among many of us are mocked and ignored by the addicts of verbal and/or physical violence? Anything goes? And the "anything" gets darker and darker?"
Open salon as "fight club"? Anyone want to step up and be the next punching bag by daring to interfere or intervene with toxic and hurtful behavior? Anyone want to let it escalate, though, as it has been and will continue to?
Just tell the victims to get over themselves? This is the malicious culture being cultivated by the BULLIES and ENABLERS OF BULLIES who are so very proud of being bullies or proud of being cronied by bullies.
Guns and dicks. Hard for some not to bring out one or the other soon enough in cybertalk or threatened IRL. But, no it is not only about guns and dicks and we women can bring out our own toxic weapons when we lapse into bullying or cronying up with one.
I guess asking someone to walk away from an ugly fight that is toxic and jeopardizing the culture and the survival of the website is too threatening in machismo-world. Anyone not having their way about EVERYTHING -- to be challenged about their extreme and out of control behavior -- is "WHIPPED" in certain misogynistic, sadistic, anti-empathy, ego-driven orbits.
Asia, appreciate your stopping by. Seriously. You write with gallows humor, "he's harmless, except around breakables." Trig. Somehow I don't find that comforting. Neither probably does Token I'm guessing.
People are breakable. Psyches, spirits, bodies are breakable.
When you threaten death or insinuate physical violence against someone that is not right or lawful or moral. And you should be asked to be accountable and responsible for the threat.
I liked oit phrasing, "let everyone say bygones" and walk away. That is not asking for the world. It is asking for an end to this serious skirmish.
Gratuitous cruelty as sport is toxic and dangerous, whether to the direct victims or the community it grows and too often thrives in. I don't think peace and dignity-mongering is a waste of time.
best, libby
Once again, I would like to thank "trig" [whoever he is], for his astoundingly humbling and deeply personal [I'm sure] observation that I, Steve Kenny [cultured and sophisticated man about town] am 'the mental equal' of Herr Austin, whom you all know as Token. I've half a mind to share this honor with you, trig, but sharing half my mind with you, "trig" would be like sharing half my computer with a cockroach. Hahahaaa.......
Pavlov got nuttin on this joint.....
Thanks for sharing Steve Kenny. Always fascinating to me the lurker contingent. I type a name, they appear. Hundreds to thousands of people watching, judging, wishing it would all go away, open salon, the great experiment gone afoul. Token at least would like to see it burn. Libby - keep fighting the good fight. There is grace in your words always
libby
thank you. well said.
bygones are now bygones at my blog-
I will no longer tolerate insult on my post. -
mutually agreeable backchat is acceptable, but BE careful that it is appreciated.
from now on, tr ig and I are quits-
But YOU all have to hold HIM accountable TOO-
Or I'm going to once again find myself riding him into a temper tantrum, so he can repent again....
how many times are you going to let him get away with
"Gee, I.m just kidding, can't take, stay off the blog-
When EVERY TIME we've gotten into it, HE"S the one who flames up and out and loses it and makes threats....
He don't bother me- his behavior SHOULD bother y'all
how about it? can we stop insulting each other or is OS going to remain a cess pit?
thank you. well said.
bygones are now bygones at my blog-
I will no longer tolerate insult on my post. -
mutually agreeable backchat is acceptable, but BE careful that it is appreciated.
from now on, tr ig and I are quits-
But YOU all have to hold HIM accountable TOO-
Or I'm going to once again find myself riding him into a temper tantrum, so he can repent again....
how many times are you going to let him get away with
"Gee, I.m just kidding, can't take, stay off the blog-
When EVERY TIME we've gotten into it, HE"S the one who flames up and out and loses it and makes threats....
He don't bother me- his behavior SHOULD bother y'all
how about it? can we stop insulting each other or is OS going to remain a cess pit?
GOLLEEEEE!!!!
Butter wouldn't melt in your mouth, would it trig?
Which one are you now , trig-Macho Bullshit or Harmless Windbag?
Shucks miz libby, I ain got time to waste goin to no OHIO....
Butter wouldn't melt in your mouth, would it trig?
Which one are you now , trig-Macho Bullshit or Harmless Windbag?
Shucks miz libby, I ain got time to waste goin to no OHIO....
Sorry Libby-trig just has a way of acting so innocent....
At least I admit that I take pride in my ability to be an asshole......trig is just jelous that he isn't as good, so he pretends he isn't trying.
At least I admit that I take pride in my ability to be an asshole......trig is just jelous that he isn't as good, so he pretends he isn't trying.
@Steve
Hey steve- good to se you!
Hey steve- good to se you!
@SteelBreeze
We passed Pavllov a while back... we 're on to P.T. Skinner (Beyond Freedom and Dignity)
We passed Pavllov a while back... we 're on to P.T. Skinner (Beyond Freedom and Dignity)
insult semper fi steel breeze and it goes full circle token .. we can start over
See that's the character flaw and problem there trig....
you CAN"T "start Over this time.
You just fessed up to being a poor harmless little fuzzball who loses his temper a lot and needs Miz Asia to vouch that you really aren't a BAD dog......
Can't take you seriously as a threat anymore, tr ig
Sorry
If you notice, I've never felt any need to insult Steelbreeze, he's always behaved perfectly honorably to me and i respect him.
You've just gone to great lengths to assure me I needen't FEAR you, and since you long ago lost any respect i had for you, we no longer have a basis of interaction.
have a good evening, fellow harmless old windbag....
you CAN"T "start Over this time.
You just fessed up to being a poor harmless little fuzzball who loses his temper a lot and needs Miz Asia to vouch that you really aren't a BAD dog......
Can't take you seriously as a threat anymore, tr ig
Sorry
If you notice, I've never felt any need to insult Steelbreeze, he's always behaved perfectly honorably to me and i respect him.
You've just gone to great lengths to assure me I needen't FEAR you, and since you long ago lost any respect i had for you, we no longer have a basis of interaction.
have a good evening, fellow harmless old windbag....
As is true in most societies, the OS society has moments when individuals and/or groups 'get into it' with each other. Attempts to bar this kind of behaviour have, on OS and in other societies, been a complete failure.
Perhaps we need to set up a warriors' arena - a site where combatants may challenge each other to duels and battles and can then fight to their little hearts content without bothering the rest of us.
Warrior combatants would decide before they fight whether they'd abide by certain rules of combat or just have at it in free-for-all style. Spectators could, if they wished, observe the battle but not join in or comment until it was ended.
Combatants could, if they wished, call upon observers to act as judges of the debate if debating rules were adopted, but combatants could also forgo any judges and just whack away at each other until one or the other withdrew. Or until they both did.
This would make "watching the fights" an option for OS members if they found such debates of interest to them. For those who have no interest in such doings, it would save them running into all sorts flame wars when innocently poking around OS looking for interesting things to read.
Crazy idea, eh wot?
R
.
Perhaps we need to set up a warriors' arena - a site where combatants may challenge each other to duels and battles and can then fight to their little hearts content without bothering the rest of us.
Warrior combatants would decide before they fight whether they'd abide by certain rules of combat or just have at it in free-for-all style. Spectators could, if they wished, observe the battle but not join in or comment until it was ended.
Combatants could, if they wished, call upon observers to act as judges of the debate if debating rules were adopted, but combatants could also forgo any judges and just whack away at each other until one or the other withdrew. Or until they both did.
This would make "watching the fights" an option for OS members if they found such debates of interest to them. For those who have no interest in such doings, it would save them running into all sorts flame wars when innocently poking around OS looking for interesting things to read.
Crazy idea, eh wot?
R
.
not at all a bad idea, Sky- i suggested something similar back in April.....
http://open.salon.com/blog/token/2014/04/12/bundy_vs_blm_wtf_tag_teams_-sign_up_now
http://open.salon.com/blog/token/2014/04/12/bundy_vs_blm_wtf_tag_teams_-sign_up_now
Sorry- this is the relevant URL for the W.T.F OS wrastling league....
http://open.salon.com/blog/token/2014/04/07/dust_up_over_fema_camps_with_jesse_ventura
http://open.salon.com/blog/token/2014/04/07/dust_up_over_fema_camps_with_jesse_ventura
For further reference see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W.T.F._%28South_Park%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W.T.F._%28South_Park%29
watch :
http://southpark.cc.com/full-episodes/s13e10-wtf
should recognize OS in there somewhere....
http://southpark.cc.com/full-episodes/s13e10-wtf
should recognize OS in there somewhere....
sky + 1 ^ token you amish oddity you creep me out and that will never change ..
to my friends, growing fewer it would seem, natural progression of a dying website .. bong jure
to my friends, growing fewer it would seem, natural progression of a dying website .. bong jure
Glad i can be of service to you trig, have a good night - don't fall up the stairs.
Libby the only reason you wrote this post was to get ratings and see your silly avatar in the feed. Your 'messenger' stuff is fading, get over it.
Damn. I missed a good one. It should've read, "...sharing half a mind with you you would be like sharing half my computer with a virus."
Rusty.
Good to see you, too, Token.
Rusty.
Good to see you, too, Token.
just finished off a double shift at work and am zonked. appreciate the interest in this blog and thread. sorry not to have responded more closely to the comments in a timely way.
I feel it is important to respond as a concerned member of this community which I am when someone seemingly has jumped the shark in terms of moral and appropriate behavior. Food fight trash talk is one thing, but when it enters the realm of physically threatening in real life, that is not okay.
The slings and arrows still flying on this thread by some make me wince, but it is good to have a forum to process stuff as a community and as individuals.
A member felt threatened with physical violence by another member and he said ouch and some of us acknowledged that ouch, because it was worth acknowledging, serious enough to acknowledge imho.
Responsibility is the ability to respond. To push back against inappropriate behavior and to care about the collective health of our community as well as our own personal state of being. To exercise tough love, not apathetic, avoidant or enabling behavior.
I have been writing about dangerously hyper-masculinized American culture, military culture, government culture, media culture and the importance of a paradigm shift from the patriarchal -- competition, power, greed, predatory, winning is everything, ends justify the means -- to a humanist paradigm of empathy, cooperation and partnership. When the malice and sadism and schadenfreude occurs so easily and earnestly at open salon among a small but very aggressive few, a kind of gang activity blood sport, it is worth our concern. Doesn't just come from males, women too lapse, I have and will again but stuff like this makes me want not to.
There's an interesting book called The Bush Dynasty and at one point the author talks about how when George W. was a frat prez at Yale he decided it was a great idea to brand the pledges with his daddy's branding irons. The Yale Daily News found out about the plan and reported on it. The Yale administrators took young George aside and told him he would not be allowed to brand the pledges with branding irons but he was welcome to brand them with scalding coat hangers.
WTF?
What a bunch of a**holes at the helm of Yale, not to mention the a**-holeness of GWB. What dangerous authority role models who decided "boys will be boys" and let the sadism roll. Lesser evil branding? No, heart of darkness territory. Maybe if someone had taken a moral stance about branding pledges George W. wouldn't have been so obliging about a torture program. He was comfortable with torturing a fellow human and the Yale administration was cool with it, too.
Will check out comments as far as I can get for now.
best, libby
I feel it is important to respond as a concerned member of this community which I am when someone seemingly has jumped the shark in terms of moral and appropriate behavior. Food fight trash talk is one thing, but when it enters the realm of physically threatening in real life, that is not okay.
The slings and arrows still flying on this thread by some make me wince, but it is good to have a forum to process stuff as a community and as individuals.
A member felt threatened with physical violence by another member and he said ouch and some of us acknowledged that ouch, because it was worth acknowledging, serious enough to acknowledge imho.
Responsibility is the ability to respond. To push back against inappropriate behavior and to care about the collective health of our community as well as our own personal state of being. To exercise tough love, not apathetic, avoidant or enabling behavior.
I have been writing about dangerously hyper-masculinized American culture, military culture, government culture, media culture and the importance of a paradigm shift from the patriarchal -- competition, power, greed, predatory, winning is everything, ends justify the means -- to a humanist paradigm of empathy, cooperation and partnership. When the malice and sadism and schadenfreude occurs so easily and earnestly at open salon among a small but very aggressive few, a kind of gang activity blood sport, it is worth our concern. Doesn't just come from males, women too lapse, I have and will again but stuff like this makes me want not to.
There's an interesting book called The Bush Dynasty and at one point the author talks about how when George W. was a frat prez at Yale he decided it was a great idea to brand the pledges with his daddy's branding irons. The Yale Daily News found out about the plan and reported on it. The Yale administrators took young George aside and told him he would not be allowed to brand the pledges with branding irons but he was welcome to brand them with scalding coat hangers.
WTF?
What a bunch of a**holes at the helm of Yale, not to mention the a**-holeness of GWB. What dangerous authority role models who decided "boys will be boys" and let the sadism roll. Lesser evil branding? No, heart of darkness territory. Maybe if someone had taken a moral stance about branding pledges George W. wouldn't have been so obliging about a torture program. He was comfortable with torturing a fellow human and the Yale administration was cool with it, too.
Will check out comments as far as I can get for now.
best, libby
Libby
again, thank you for writing this, and more to the point, caring enough to write it....
I was raised "not knowing any better" than to delight in such 'blood sport'-- I've learned better
But I'm glad to say that it makes the stuff that goes on here seem like amateur hour, and I hope you and other concerned people on OS can recognize a Morality Play when you see one and take trig and my behavior for the horrible example that it is...
seriously
I have had a bad tendency to let insult pass or respond heartily in kind, cause I was raised with that being the norm.... Most of y'all weren't
As I said before, trig don't bother me, but y'all SHOULD find OUR behavior disgusting.....
and don't do it anymore
(by and large you are no good at it, anyway
Thank God. )
again, thank you for writing this, and more to the point, caring enough to write it....
I was raised "not knowing any better" than to delight in such 'blood sport'-- I've learned better
But I'm glad to say that it makes the stuff that goes on here seem like amateur hour, and I hope you and other concerned people on OS can recognize a Morality Play when you see one and take trig and my behavior for the horrible example that it is...
seriously
I have had a bad tendency to let insult pass or respond heartily in kind, cause I was raised with that being the norm.... Most of y'all weren't
As I said before, trig don't bother me, but y'all SHOULD find OUR behavior disgusting.....
and don't do it anymore
(by and large you are no good at it, anyway
Thank God. )
Foolish Monkey, thank you for launching this thread with great sense and spirit. "Impossibly insulting and abusive behavior" really says what too often erupts on open salon. There's an epidemic of bullying among America's schoolchildren. Clearly open salon has a bullying epidemic of its own. What do they tell kids re bullying. To be proactive and support others who are targeted. Not to roll over and let the bullies run their cruel shows. Sounds like OS can take a lesson from that. "moral enemies" definitely works!
thanks, amy.
jon, "infantilism" is the perfect word for it. No capacity for internal boundaries and self restraint. Or no resilience against malicious behavior of others to exercise principles and ideals and push back against colluding, supporting, joining in.
Token, I can't endorse the put-downs but I appreciate the outrage that being threatened brought up in you! I think you called out something that deserved being addressed, a bottom line standard that got violated, and it was self-honoring and community-honoring!
lyle, thanks for your support on this!
thanks, Gerald, I think grassroots self-policing is a healthier way to go.
Amy, cronyism is strong stuff in inducing us to too often ignore the unignore-able. to placidly coexist with double-standardism.
Physical threats are not okay, trig. You are maintaining that you did not intimate physical harm or threaten Token with that? Or you insist that even if you did, the target of your talk should have known you weren't serious and if he believed you, that is not your responsibility? I'm thinking you seriously jumped the shark, and deserve a response for that behavior. Threatening someone with physical harm is not okay. There's a line there. I'm not being hysterical. I am being clear and non-minimizing of something that shouldn't be minimized!
best, libby
thanks, amy.
jon, "infantilism" is the perfect word for it. No capacity for internal boundaries and self restraint. Or no resilience against malicious behavior of others to exercise principles and ideals and push back against colluding, supporting, joining in.
Token, I can't endorse the put-downs but I appreciate the outrage that being threatened brought up in you! I think you called out something that deserved being addressed, a bottom line standard that got violated, and it was self-honoring and community-honoring!
lyle, thanks for your support on this!
thanks, Gerald, I think grassroots self-policing is a healthier way to go.
Amy, cronyism is strong stuff in inducing us to too often ignore the unignore-able. to placidly coexist with double-standardism.
Physical threats are not okay, trig. You are maintaining that you did not intimate physical harm or threaten Token with that? Or you insist that even if you did, the target of your talk should have known you weren't serious and if he believed you, that is not your responsibility? I'm thinking you seriously jumped the shark, and deserve a response for that behavior. Threatening someone with physical harm is not okay. There's a line there. I'm not being hysterical. I am being clear and non-minimizing of something that shouldn't be minimized!
best, libby
will be back.
Nah.
I'm not buying any of the faux-outrage (or even falser quasi-apologies) of a lot of these people because I have seen them say all of this stuff before and then, as soon as they can either pile on or take a cheap shot at someone they dislike, they are as vile as they can be.
Face it, Libby. At least 75% of the people on this site are assholes or, as in the case of like CrazyCzar and Beck, are seriously mentally disturbed IMO.
I mean look at them... you got Wolfman talking bullshit platitudes about "infantilism" here, yet read, rated and joked around on CrazyCzar's attack post about me (and BTW CC IS a homophobic asshole. He also is a liar because he says that either I respond to his post or STFU and he deletes all of my comments so I won't waste my time); you got Trig here saying placating crap like "we can start over", but tossing around insults on another post with his douche buddy; you've got Foolish Monkey channeling Rodney King's "why can't we all get along" speech, but she has called me every name in the book and freely denigrated anyone she pleases; etc. etc. etc.
So, I'm pretty much as the "Fuck all of them" stage. I am SOOOOOO sick of their two-faced, lesser evilism, behind the scenes back stabbing, cowardly lying and attack I am thinking that the BEST they deserve is to be treated like the pieces of crap they are. They are bullies, assholes and liars. Bullies, assholes and liars deserve anything and every despicable thing that happens to them. I have NO love, understanding or forgiveness left for them.
I'm not buying any of the faux-outrage (or even falser quasi-apologies) of a lot of these people because I have seen them say all of this stuff before and then, as soon as they can either pile on or take a cheap shot at someone they dislike, they are as vile as they can be.
Face it, Libby. At least 75% of the people on this site are assholes or, as in the case of like CrazyCzar and Beck, are seriously mentally disturbed IMO.
I mean look at them... you got Wolfman talking bullshit platitudes about "infantilism" here, yet read, rated and joked around on CrazyCzar's attack post about me (and BTW CC IS a homophobic asshole. He also is a liar because he says that either I respond to his post or STFU and he deletes all of my comments so I won't waste my time); you got Trig here saying placating crap like "we can start over", but tossing around insults on another post with his douche buddy; you've got Foolish Monkey channeling Rodney King's "why can't we all get along" speech, but she has called me every name in the book and freely denigrated anyone she pleases; etc. etc. etc.
So, I'm pretty much as the "Fuck all of them" stage. I am SOOOOOO sick of their two-faced, lesser evilism, behind the scenes back stabbing, cowardly lying and attack I am thinking that the BEST they deserve is to be treated like the pieces of crap they are. They are bullies, assholes and liars. Bullies, assholes and liars deserve anything and every despicable thing that happens to them. I have NO love, understanding or forgiveness left for them.
SafeButchAmy writes "BTW CC [Joisey Shore] IS a homophobic asshole. He also is a liar because he says that either I respond to his post or STFU and he deletes all of my comments so I won't waste my time"
Baa haa haa ... what a convenient excuse, Amy, and a lie as well. The only comment of yours that I've ever deleted is a recent one where you attacked another commenter (gee, whatta surprise).
Tell ya what -- have any "friend" of yours point-out any homophobic remark then on your behalf. Go ahead. The challenge, therefore, is in force.
Baa haa haa ... what a convenient excuse, Amy, and a lie as well. The only comment of yours that I've ever deleted is a recent one where you attacked another commenter (gee, whatta surprise).
Tell ya what -- have any "friend" of yours point-out any homophobic remark then on your behalf. Go ahead. The challenge, therefore, is in force.
And BTW, I mean any "public" remark here on OS -- not some faux-comment on a deleted blog or a made-up PM or made-up website that I've never visited, Amy.
How very Beckian of you CrazyCzar.
You slam me with YOUR misremembered recollections of things you SAY I said, but them refuse to let me demonstrate your homophobic comments unless you "approve" the sources, the source hasn't been deleted by people who either were disgusted with what you said or deleted it to protect" their buddy and THEN I can ask a friend to point them out.
Do you have ANY idea how ridiculous you are by saying that? Do you have ANY grasp of what a demented asshole you appear to be to others?
Go fuck off and die, CrazyCzar. Take your fucked up gang of pile-oners, liars and assholes with you.
You slam me with YOUR misremembered recollections of things you SAY I said, but them refuse to let me demonstrate your homophobic comments unless you "approve" the sources, the source hasn't been deleted by people who either were disgusted with what you said or deleted it to protect" their buddy and THEN I can ask a friend to point them out.
Do you have ANY idea how ridiculous you are by saying that? Do you have ANY grasp of what a demented asshole you appear to be to others?
Go fuck off and die, CrazyCzar. Take your fucked up gang of pile-oners, liars and assholes with you.
(chuckle) O.K. Amy.
I sometimes annoy bloggers because I play devil's advocate when presenting opposing viewpoints (back-up with references/sources most times), whereas you, author of devil-wears-yamulke post classify an entire group of people based on isolated incidents carried-out by individuals.
I can easily point to many "offenses", flip-floppin', and inconsistent statements you make, right here, right now. But when told to do the same about me, if I understand you correctly, all of the offending evidence has been erased, right?
baa haa haa ... who is the insane one now?
I sometimes annoy bloggers because I play devil's advocate when presenting opposing viewpoints (back-up with references/sources most times), whereas you, author of devil-wears-yamulke post classify an entire group of people based on isolated incidents carried-out by individuals.
I can easily point to many "offenses", flip-floppin', and inconsistent statements you make, right here, right now. But when told to do the same about me, if I understand you correctly, all of the offending evidence has been erased, right?
baa haa haa ... who is the insane one now?
I'm going to say something here and I may be right and I may be wrong but the hell with it, I'm saying it.
Amy it is you, YOU that is an enormous part of the ramping up every disagreement to the point of being incredibly insulting, abusive and what's more you lie. Someone you don't like will say something and you'll find a way to twist it to suit your intent and your agenda. What I find interesting is that you COULD read what people say and it's possible you might actually AGREE with them. But that would be sacrosant to you. Instead you will without fail find a way to disagree with what they're actually saying - by rearranging what they say, or reinterpreting what they say, because if you didn't do that, you'd actually have to read them. And that takes the ability to reason.
In the Kosh thread about the holocaust I called you out on being abusive. I've called you out on being rude and purposely mean and I'll tell you, I'm beginning to believe you may be seriously mentally ill. You are not unintelligent but you ARE completely twisted. You are addicted to the power of hurting and abusing people you aren't in the same room with. You'd be thrown out of any home on your ass if you treated any one like you do some of the people here.
You enter a conversation and I know the first person who is going to be abused is Bill Beck, even if he hasn't contributed to the conversation. Then whoever is in your radar. You have radar and you focus it. Remember that term on the Sopranos? Manson orbs? That's how I see your way of focusing - with boundless deepest hatred.
You hate. You don't disagree with what people say, you HATE the people saying it, venomously, vehemently and cruelly. When I read you I wonder what in God's name you are about when you're NOT here.
I say stop trying to turn this place into the hell, the fury that is in your head and your heart. You've poisoned any credibility you may have with the depth of your disgust towards so many, none that I can see or even imagine deserving of such rude treatment.
Unless you come to grips with this boundless hate you never look at because I suspect you can't stop yourself from feeling and spewing, it's going to bite you in the ass. NO one can live with that running through them.
And meanwhile you are turning most discussions you participate in to shit. Total shit. look at your contributions here. Dumping. Relentless endless dumps.
Amy it is you, YOU that is an enormous part of the ramping up every disagreement to the point of being incredibly insulting, abusive and what's more you lie. Someone you don't like will say something and you'll find a way to twist it to suit your intent and your agenda. What I find interesting is that you COULD read what people say and it's possible you might actually AGREE with them. But that would be sacrosant to you. Instead you will without fail find a way to disagree with what they're actually saying - by rearranging what they say, or reinterpreting what they say, because if you didn't do that, you'd actually have to read them. And that takes the ability to reason.
In the Kosh thread about the holocaust I called you out on being abusive. I've called you out on being rude and purposely mean and I'll tell you, I'm beginning to believe you may be seriously mentally ill. You are not unintelligent but you ARE completely twisted. You are addicted to the power of hurting and abusing people you aren't in the same room with. You'd be thrown out of any home on your ass if you treated any one like you do some of the people here.
You enter a conversation and I know the first person who is going to be abused is Bill Beck, even if he hasn't contributed to the conversation. Then whoever is in your radar. You have radar and you focus it. Remember that term on the Sopranos? Manson orbs? That's how I see your way of focusing - with boundless deepest hatred.
You hate. You don't disagree with what people say, you HATE the people saying it, venomously, vehemently and cruelly. When I read you I wonder what in God's name you are about when you're NOT here.
I say stop trying to turn this place into the hell, the fury that is in your head and your heart. You've poisoned any credibility you may have with the depth of your disgust towards so many, none that I can see or even imagine deserving of such rude treatment.
Unless you come to grips with this boundless hate you never look at because I suspect you can't stop yourself from feeling and spewing, it's going to bite you in the ass. NO one can live with that running through them.
And meanwhile you are turning most discussions you participate in to shit. Total shit. look at your contributions here. Dumping. Relentless endless dumps.
Libby, I apologize but I think what I said to Amy needs to be said. If you delete it, you delete it. I hope you don't. I hope it changes something. What? Who the hell knows but it's straight up. You know, we all have dark sides....some of us spend too much time there.
done.
done.
Peace Love and Understanding .. what's so funny about that?
Yeah Yeah Yeah I threatened Token .. that's the ticket. And it's not ok? Who fucking knew. I figured it WAS after he said what he said about killing my son. It's all on record at googlecacheofdeletedbullshit.com
Problem is putting together the fragments there to reach whatever conclusion is most advantageous to your cause.
I WILL go ahead and say this .. for the record. If presented the opportunity I would physically beat Token's ass then spit on his pathetic heap of crumpled shit self. Wouldn't travel past the end of my driveway to do that however, let alone cross state lines armed with IP addresses and Kroger coordinates hacked by Keiko like some sort of really dumb vengeance ninja. Oh the schadenfreude. Oh the humanity. You are a saintly internet entity Libby. Surely you'll be rewarded with a ticket to hebbin where you can have a great vantage point view of all the injustices down here, and you can wring your hands and blow kisses upon us all.
Yeah Yeah Yeah I threatened Token .. that's the ticket. And it's not ok? Who fucking knew. I figured it WAS after he said what he said about killing my son. It's all on record at googlecacheofdeletedbullshit.com
Problem is putting together the fragments there to reach whatever conclusion is most advantageous to your cause.
I WILL go ahead and say this .. for the record. If presented the opportunity I would physically beat Token's ass then spit on his pathetic heap of crumpled shit self. Wouldn't travel past the end of my driveway to do that however, let alone cross state lines armed with IP addresses and Kroger coordinates hacked by Keiko like some sort of really dumb vengeance ninja. Oh the schadenfreude. Oh the humanity. You are a saintly internet entity Libby. Surely you'll be rewarded with a ticket to hebbin where you can have a great vantage point view of all the injustices down here, and you can wring your hands and blow kisses upon us all.
Thank you for proving my point, Foolish Monkey. You are SUCH a hypocrite with your "why can't we all get along" / rabid personal attacks shtick. You should take that kabuki show on the road.
And yes Monkey .. Amy (in short) is a hateful hatchet wound. Well said.
so, tr ig
I won't re engage with you at this point, but you need to consider seriously just how foolish and pitiful it mkes you look to keep going through these cycles of rage and repentance.
Which is this last one... Macho Bullshit Cowboy or Harmless Fuzzy old Windbag?
I won't re engage with you at this point, but you need to consider seriously just how foolish and pitiful it mkes you look to keep going through these cycles of rage and repentance.
Which is this last one... Macho Bullshit Cowboy or Harmless Fuzzy old Windbag?
You wanted my address T?
I'll give it to you if you promise to visit.
I'll give it to you if you promise to visit.
Amy, in a thread where we're discussing how to figure how to get along better here, you go and set up your own little hatchet stand and start your usual whacking away.
I didn't insult you. I told the truth.
This is the most I've said to you in a while. I've discussed you publicly but I avoid discussion with you.
Do you want to know why?
Because you don't discuss, you attempt to annihilate. There is no disagreement. It's all hate. Pus. Foulness.
And that's it. I've said what I intended to. And I even responded to you.
I didn't insult you. I told the truth.
This is the most I've said to you in a while. I've discussed you publicly but I avoid discussion with you.
Do you want to know why?
Because you don't discuss, you attempt to annihilate. There is no disagreement. It's all hate. Pus. Foulness.
And that's it. I've said what I intended to. And I even responded to you.
@Asia
You need to come get your harmless little yapping fuzzball and put him back on his leash, he's looking for more trouble.
@trig
deal. But put in addresses for both of you, I don't want to visit the Cowboy, but if I can't discuss anything with the harmless old windbag, I'll at least be able to ignore him-
The Macho Bullshit Cowboy is just too terrible to think of facing in person ( might spit on me)
You need to come get your harmless little yapping fuzzball and put him back on his leash, he's looking for more trouble.
@trig
deal. But put in addresses for both of you, I don't want to visit the Cowboy, but if I can't discuss anything with the harmless old windbag, I'll at least be able to ignore him-
The Macho Bullshit Cowboy is just too terrible to think of facing in person ( might spit on me)
We're all gas-emitting fuzzballs around here, tho some emit sweet vapors and some, gah. It's all words. And words can hurt. But it seems to be an internet example of what goes on in RL. Fight or flight. Engage or ignore.
The Gas-Emitting Fuzzballs - we should start a band.
Ultimately what goes on around here comes down to in-built personalities. The reasonable people want the unreasonable people to listen to reason and become reasonable. What some of the unreasonable people want is a mystery - and their unreasonableness seems to be beyond any appeal to reason.
I think some fuzzballs are low-key emitters that can let off a little gas now and then, and some need to puff out more, and some can only be happy emitting copious amounts.
And some have to explode periodically cuz that's just how they are. (And it's safe to explode here than all over some Meat Space character who'd make real bloody mincemeat out of them...)
The Gas-Emitting Fuzzballs - we should start a band.
Ultimately what goes on around here comes down to in-built personalities. The reasonable people want the unreasonable people to listen to reason and become reasonable. What some of the unreasonable people want is a mystery - and their unreasonableness seems to be beyond any appeal to reason.
I think some fuzzballs are low-key emitters that can let off a little gas now and then, and some need to puff out more, and some can only be happy emitting copious amounts.
And some have to explode periodically cuz that's just how they are. (And it's safe to explode here than all over some Meat Space character who'd make real bloody mincemeat out of them...)
Myriad, one can be unreasonable AND civil. one can be polite, one can be contentious. One can be many things and that's the point. We are many things and what has made OS such a great place is that we surprise one another. Even a clock is right twice a day.
It's this endless war where one side is evil and one side is good and which side are YOU on? When one disagrees, why is it suddenly okay to be routinely abused, lied about and insulted routinely for the transgression of not agreeing with a point of view. I've never seen it here to THIS degree. We can disagree like human beings. This is something else and as I said to a friend, this is toxic.
Now I'll stop and watch some TV with my dogs. I'm stuck here trying to keep the spirits up of one and I may be succeeding!
It's this endless war where one side is evil and one side is good and which side are YOU on? When one disagrees, why is it suddenly okay to be routinely abused, lied about and insulted routinely for the transgression of not agreeing with a point of view. I've never seen it here to THIS degree. We can disagree like human beings. This is something else and as I said to a friend, this is toxic.
Now I'll stop and watch some TV with my dogs. I'm stuck here trying to keep the spirits up of one and I may be succeeding!
Keep that doggy's spirit up!
Mine is a miserable conehead for the nonce.
Mine is a miserable conehead for the nonce.
The three A's of recovery. AWARENESS, ACCEPTANCE AND ACTION.
Awareness is a long first stage obviously. The consciousness of how serious the problem is. That it exists, it is rampant, it is defiant of peace and mutual respect.
Acceptance is that "Houston, we have a problem" admission of the depth and seriousness of the problem. And that it will worsen if it does not get collectively addressed. One has to decide if one is going to be part of the solution or part of the problem. This is an inconvenient, hard choice if one decides to move out of the "problem" dimension to the pro-active "solution" dimension. It sets up the "solution" seeker as a target of the core problem perpetrators.
Action is when there is a will, a commitment and a capacity to actually actively respond to the problem, in this case, bullying at open salon.
This is a process, a long and painful one. But one that is not easy but carries hope and offers a path of dignity, peace and self- and other- respect as well as inviting the predictable attempts at punishment and censure from those who refuse to surrender their ego-driven anti-social payoffs.
I am no saint by a long shot. But I was a messenger maybe of something messy and something easier to look away from, but deserving of reflection, attention and the application of personal and social courage from all of us including myself. The serenity prayer I'm thinking is useful for me and others here. Accept what can't change, stoke the courage to change what one can, and struggle for the wisdom to figure out the g-d difference.
Open salon is a microcosm of what is happening globally. If we can find peace, maybe the world can simultaneously? Can we make the paradigm shift to humanism? I think so.
best, libby
Awareness is a long first stage obviously. The consciousness of how serious the problem is. That it exists, it is rampant, it is defiant of peace and mutual respect.
Acceptance is that "Houston, we have a problem" admission of the depth and seriousness of the problem. And that it will worsen if it does not get collectively addressed. One has to decide if one is going to be part of the solution or part of the problem. This is an inconvenient, hard choice if one decides to move out of the "problem" dimension to the pro-active "solution" dimension. It sets up the "solution" seeker as a target of the core problem perpetrators.
Action is when there is a will, a commitment and a capacity to actually actively respond to the problem, in this case, bullying at open salon.
This is a process, a long and painful one. But one that is not easy but carries hope and offers a path of dignity, peace and self- and other- respect as well as inviting the predictable attempts at punishment and censure from those who refuse to surrender their ego-driven anti-social payoffs.
I am no saint by a long shot. But I was a messenger maybe of something messy and something easier to look away from, but deserving of reflection, attention and the application of personal and social courage from all of us including myself. The serenity prayer I'm thinking is useful for me and others here. Accept what can't change, stoke the courage to change what one can, and struggle for the wisdom to figure out the g-d difference.
Open salon is a microcosm of what is happening globally. If we can find peace, maybe the world can simultaneously? Can we make the paradigm shift to humanism? I think so.
best, libby
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