So there’s this old joke from the sixties or seventies. “How many feminists does it take to screw in a lightbulb?”
Answer: “That’s not funny!”
That’s where I am ... in that “that’s not funny” mode -- or where I was during a surprising and self-disappointing moment of hair-trigger petulance while commenting on Open Salon yesterday. [JL -- I’m sorry.]
There’s an interesting scene in the old movie “The Way We Were” when the Robert Redford character chides the Barbara Streisand one for being so relentlessly intense and off-putting with her politics. Barbara as an FDR-adoring college student had a sudden, sweet and hope-delicious moment addressing her fellow students at an outdoor assembly. Then she is heckled from the crowd by one guy and she pops off angrily at all of them, feeling betrayed and disheartened.
“All you had to do was laugh. You had them!” Redford mourned.
New Year. Two weeks prior a holiday vacation of my letting up on my intense, alternate media, political consciousness raising reading. I put myself on the cognitive dissonance channel ... only bits of chatter managed to get in as I joyously reunited with family and travelled about out west. I savored life, family, nature and fully exhaling.
Answer: “That’s not funny!”
That’s where I am ... in that “that’s not funny” mode -- or where I was during a surprising and self-disappointing moment of hair-trigger petulance while commenting on Open Salon yesterday. [JL -- I’m sorry.]
There’s an interesting scene in the old movie “The Way We Were” when the Robert Redford character chides the Barbara Streisand one for being so relentlessly intense and off-putting with her politics. Barbara as an FDR-adoring college student had a sudden, sweet and hope-delicious moment addressing her fellow students at an outdoor assembly. Then she is heckled from the crowd by one guy and she pops off angrily at all of them, feeling betrayed and disheartened.
“All you had to do was laugh. You had them!” Redford mourned.
New Year. Two weeks prior a holiday vacation of my letting up on my intense, alternate media, political consciousness raising reading. I put myself on the cognitive dissonance channel ... only bits of chatter managed to get in as I joyously reunited with family and travelled about out west. I savored life, family, nature and fully exhaling.
Santa Claus is white not black???? The Duck guy said what???? A few heavy-voiced political interjections from me into scraps of conversations with family but I didn’t pursue very far -- at least to my ears.
So, I come back thinking my mojo had been renewed. Having missed my Open Salon family-tribe and eager to dust off the soap box and alight.
To reset.
Oooops. What is my anger and self-pity suddenly about?
I think denial is often a necessary ingredient for social and personal functioning. Serious assumptions we manage to feed and foster.
Sometimes when we’re ready, sometimes when we’re not, we get whammied with reality or simply nudged by a disturbing taste of it. Sometimes those comfortable false assumptions come from an over-puffed (and desperate) ego. Sometimes they are from an under-developed one (in those rare and precious positive ambushes of feedback our ego becomes strengthened).
Ever hear of the Johari windows theory relating to the self? Four windows. One through which we and others can see ourselves in a similarly knowing way. One through which we see the reality of ourselves that other’s can’t see or know. One through which others can see things about us we are in denial of. The fourth window is one neither others or us can see the truths about us through.
Those latter two make me very nervous.
Sometimes I think of myself as bumping my nose into a great glass wall of denial.
So, I come back thinking my mojo had been renewed. Having missed my Open Salon family-tribe and eager to dust off the soap box and alight.
To reset.
Oooops. What is my anger and self-pity suddenly about?
I think denial is often a necessary ingredient for social and personal functioning. Serious assumptions we manage to feed and foster.
Sometimes when we’re ready, sometimes when we’re not, we get whammied with reality or simply nudged by a disturbing taste of it. Sometimes those comfortable false assumptions come from an over-puffed (and desperate) ego. Sometimes they are from an under-developed one (in those rare and precious positive ambushes of feedback our ego becomes strengthened).
Ever hear of the Johari windows theory relating to the self? Four windows. One through which we and others can see ourselves in a similarly knowing way. One through which we see the reality of ourselves that other’s can’t see or know. One through which others can see things about us we are in denial of. The fourth window is one neither others or us can see the truths about us through.
Those latter two make me very nervous.
Sometimes I think of myself as bumping my nose into a great glass wall of denial.
Sometimes I think of myself as one of those little cartoon characters who inadvertently races off a cliff and is temporarily, cartoon-world, gravity-defying safe in mid-air as long as it doesn’t look down. Then BLAMMMM.
What am I struggling to get to the point of?
There are people with whom I can happily connect with and learn from on Open Salon who share my sensibility of reality to a great extent and the connection nurtures my heart, soul and mind and gives me a sense of hope.
God bless them.
There are people who teach me about life -- politically, socially, emotionally, physically here on Open Salon. Those who are like me in some ways and those very, very different from me. I learn and grow from their sharings.
God bless them.
There are people who read me and whom I annoy and disturb and who at times let me know it.
God bless them. (Okay, maybe I myself am not ready to.)
And there are people on Open Salon with whom I would like to connect but probably never will.
For whom the opportunity is gone.
From simple logistics for some.
From social chemistry for others. For some I am branded, rightly or wrongly, a muckraking, lefty propagandist whose communication efforts and perspective have all the impact of Charlie Brown’s perpetually squawking teacher. I maybe jumped the proverbial shark for them from the get go.
I think this is key to my bout of distress yesterday. This seemingly obvious reality but one I had not fully surrendered to.
Deep breath. So be it.
I over-indulged coming back from vacation on political reading. (Btw, I don’t see myself as a radical and am continually dismayed to be labeled extreme. I see myself as just a highly earnest student and a former but still compulsive teacher.)
There was a great lesson in one article about Edward Snowden I read before passing out on my couch from work and jet lag. Snowden serenely affirmed to an interviewer that his primary goal of releasing the mass NSA surveillance information was not to bring about change in America. He said he did what he did to give us American citizens information we were missing so WE could collectively measure reality and choose to bring about change in America or NOT. He said his mission as far as he was concerned had been accomplished. (Too bad that icky image of Bush now has to hover in “mission accomplished” references!).
Anyway, Snowden’s attitude seems straight out of the anti-codependency, 12-step guide book.
I really need to start reciting the Serenity Prayer again.
“God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change. The courage to change the things I can. And the wisdom to know the difference.”
Mind you, feelings are feelings. Serenity is achieved via the processing of feelings, not the absence of them. Feelings aren’t right or wrong, they just ARE, I learned from way too many self-help books. Actually feelings are vital feedback signals on the metaphorical dashboard as we travel down the highway of life. Too many of us are driving blind without looking down to heed those HELPFUL signals.
I suspect most of us, myself especially, have become too good at stuffing our feelings regularly into a proverbial gunnysack. (Shifting into a new metaphor) Letting it become so stuffed it suddenly explodes on us and others in discomforting, embarrassing and revelatory ways. Those not so attractive feelings spilling out. Darn. They were never supposed to leave that dark, stuffed, hidden sack.
I really don’t like feeling that so many members of my society -- at Open Salon and outside -- are in a serious dimension of denial when it comes to the dangerousness of our government, the present amoral ruling class wealthy elite that controls it and the lying and minimizing mainstream media that distracts, numbs or confuses them -- us. The reality behind such denial scares and frustrates the hell out of me. I feel that my own earnest awareness and quest for it (ever since the Iraq War I made a commitment to myself to stay awake to what my government was doing in my name) at times blocks me socially from bonding as much as I would like or as much as I would like others to be able to bond with me.
It makes me lonely at times. It confuses me. It depresses me. it frustrates me. It excites me. It challenges me.
It is the price of being human. The stuff of life. We all struggle with degrees of alienation and emotional overwhelm. Negotiating human and self connections. I know I am not so special in this.
That I am regarded as a negativist and a propagandist by apparently to me a distressingly significant some on Open Salon (and some days my ego demands not a one -- so there you go) seemed to get to me yesterday. I felt a sense of futility, and as they say in the 12-step rooms, if it feels “hysterical” it means it is “historical”. I’ll save you the detailed litany of my historical motivations. Trust me they are there. Rejection, abandonment fears, etc. Yadda, yadda ...
Often on Open Salon I want to communicate what I earnestly believe is the real “reality” of our collective situation as the US family and the human family. I seek out alternate media sources. But after so much time and effort and “earnestness”, I recognize my writing style and rhetoric, temperament, personality, intensity, frustration have ended up permanently alienating certain others and I have all the communicative impact of Charlie Brown’s perpetually squawking teacher. Diminishing returns for my efforts with some.
For the last two weeks or so I was on a much-needed and gratifying holiday vacation with my family out west. It was warm, fun, renewing -- physically, spiritually and emotionally.
The pace of my work-life has taken on for some time now Lucy and the chocolate factory proportions (but yes, I know, thank God I still have a job).
When I was off on vacation, I didn’t wind myself up each day soaking in alternate media cyber revelations about mass governmental betrayal of US citizens and humanity in general.
I clicked away with my camera. I played. I sight saw.
I’m back and struggling some with social and emotional brinksmanship. With that age old question, “Who the heck am I?” Perusing the embers in the smithy of my soul.
Dealing with my response-ability to myself and my world, with all its dimensions.
It helps to process it once again on Open Salon.
Happy New Year!
What am I struggling to get to the point of?
There are people with whom I can happily connect with and learn from on Open Salon who share my sensibility of reality to a great extent and the connection nurtures my heart, soul and mind and gives me a sense of hope.
God bless them.
There are people who teach me about life -- politically, socially, emotionally, physically here on Open Salon. Those who are like me in some ways and those very, very different from me. I learn and grow from their sharings.
God bless them.
There are people who read me and whom I annoy and disturb and who at times let me know it.
God bless them. (Okay, maybe I myself am not ready to.)
And there are people on Open Salon with whom I would like to connect but probably never will.
For whom the opportunity is gone.
From simple logistics for some.
From social chemistry for others. For some I am branded, rightly or wrongly, a muckraking, lefty propagandist whose communication efforts and perspective have all the impact of Charlie Brown’s perpetually squawking teacher. I maybe jumped the proverbial shark for them from the get go.
I think this is key to my bout of distress yesterday. This seemingly obvious reality but one I had not fully surrendered to.
Deep breath. So be it.
I over-indulged coming back from vacation on political reading. (Btw, I don’t see myself as a radical and am continually dismayed to be labeled extreme. I see myself as just a highly earnest student and a former but still compulsive teacher.)
There was a great lesson in one article about Edward Snowden I read before passing out on my couch from work and jet lag. Snowden serenely affirmed to an interviewer that his primary goal of releasing the mass NSA surveillance information was not to bring about change in America. He said he did what he did to give us American citizens information we were missing so WE could collectively measure reality and choose to bring about change in America or NOT. He said his mission as far as he was concerned had been accomplished. (Too bad that icky image of Bush now has to hover in “mission accomplished” references!).
Anyway, Snowden’s attitude seems straight out of the anti-codependency, 12-step guide book.
I really need to start reciting the Serenity Prayer again.
“God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change. The courage to change the things I can. And the wisdom to know the difference.”
Mind you, feelings are feelings. Serenity is achieved via the processing of feelings, not the absence of them. Feelings aren’t right or wrong, they just ARE, I learned from way too many self-help books. Actually feelings are vital feedback signals on the metaphorical dashboard as we travel down the highway of life. Too many of us are driving blind without looking down to heed those HELPFUL signals.
I suspect most of us, myself especially, have become too good at stuffing our feelings regularly into a proverbial gunnysack. (Shifting into a new metaphor) Letting it become so stuffed it suddenly explodes on us and others in discomforting, embarrassing and revelatory ways. Those not so attractive feelings spilling out. Darn. They were never supposed to leave that dark, stuffed, hidden sack.
I really don’t like feeling that so many members of my society -- at Open Salon and outside -- are in a serious dimension of denial when it comes to the dangerousness of our government, the present amoral ruling class wealthy elite that controls it and the lying and minimizing mainstream media that distracts, numbs or confuses them -- us. The reality behind such denial scares and frustrates the hell out of me. I feel that my own earnest awareness and quest for it (ever since the Iraq War I made a commitment to myself to stay awake to what my government was doing in my name) at times blocks me socially from bonding as much as I would like or as much as I would like others to be able to bond with me.
It makes me lonely at times. It confuses me. It depresses me. it frustrates me. It excites me. It challenges me.
It is the price of being human. The stuff of life. We all struggle with degrees of alienation and emotional overwhelm. Negotiating human and self connections. I know I am not so special in this.
That I am regarded as a negativist and a propagandist by apparently to me a distressingly significant some on Open Salon (and some days my ego demands not a one -- so there you go) seemed to get to me yesterday. I felt a sense of futility, and as they say in the 12-step rooms, if it feels “hysterical” it means it is “historical”. I’ll save you the detailed litany of my historical motivations. Trust me they are there. Rejection, abandonment fears, etc. Yadda, yadda ...
Often on Open Salon I want to communicate what I earnestly believe is the real “reality” of our collective situation as the US family and the human family. I seek out alternate media sources. But after so much time and effort and “earnestness”, I recognize my writing style and rhetoric, temperament, personality, intensity, frustration have ended up permanently alienating certain others and I have all the communicative impact of Charlie Brown’s perpetually squawking teacher. Diminishing returns for my efforts with some.
For the last two weeks or so I was on a much-needed and gratifying holiday vacation with my family out west. It was warm, fun, renewing -- physically, spiritually and emotionally.
The pace of my work-life has taken on for some time now Lucy and the chocolate factory proportions (but yes, I know, thank God I still have a job).
When I was off on vacation, I didn’t wind myself up each day soaking in alternate media cyber revelations about mass governmental betrayal of US citizens and humanity in general.
I clicked away with my camera. I played. I sight saw.
I’m back and struggling some with social and emotional brinksmanship. With that age old question, “Who the heck am I?” Perusing the embers in the smithy of my soul.
Dealing with my response-ability to myself and my world, with all its dimensions.
It helps to process it once again on Open Salon.
Happy New Year!
--------------
Have a happy, healthy, prosperous, and ultimately successful new year
We need you here, Libby. I don't always agree with you, but I admire your resolve and the way you always make me think a little more seriously about things. You've probably even pulled me farther to the left on at least a few occasions. And I doubt that I'm alone in any of this. Wear that left leaning badge with pride. That's how I meant it.
And no apology needed.
And no apology needed.
Serenity. That's an inside job, surely.
I know you mean well, libby. We may not always see eye to eye, but I try never to discourage others whose views differ from my own until or unless those views start to dominate others' ways of life.
Here's to non-dominance and to shared effort, now and in 2014--and always, for that matter.
Peace to you
I know you mean well, libby. We may not always see eye to eye, but I try never to discourage others whose views differ from my own until or unless those views start to dominate others' ways of life.
Here's to non-dominance and to shared effort, now and in 2014--and always, for that matter.
Peace to you
You are one hell of a writer, photographer, and poet. Stick around. We need you. Happy New Year! R
This is a well-written, introspective and honest piece, Libby. Happy New Year!
Lezlie
Lezlie
I loved the windows.
And the joke.
Do you know the psychologist light bulb joke? I still use it:
How many psychologists does it take to change a light bulb?
One, but first the light bulb has to want to change.
And the joke.
Do you know the psychologist light bulb joke? I still use it:
How many psychologists does it take to change a light bulb?
One, but first the light bulb has to want to change.
tho i disagree with many of your views,i've always admired those that stick to their convictions,and,we all have our off-kilt days....happy new years...
I hear you, Libby.
I admire your voice ringing out, regardless of agreement. And I agree with some, to a lot, of what you say.
Please don't confuse those choosing not to spend time on OS always zeroed in/writing about/commenting about the state of the country/world with denial. Maintaining balance is an individual thing and I hope you'll consider there is meaningful belief and action - however that manifests - going on among us, at least some of us, in the 3D world even if it's not so visible here on OS.
Regardless, I think you're a valuable voice here - and everything written here by any of us is viewed by way more than by those who rate or comment. Who knows who you might be reaching.
Happy New Year to you, Libby, may your year ahead be filled with hope : )
I admire your voice ringing out, regardless of agreement. And I agree with some, to a lot, of what you say.
Please don't confuse those choosing not to spend time on OS always zeroed in/writing about/commenting about the state of the country/world with denial. Maintaining balance is an individual thing and I hope you'll consider there is meaningful belief and action - however that manifests - going on among us, at least some of us, in the 3D world even if it's not so visible here on OS.
Regardless, I think you're a valuable voice here - and everything written here by any of us is viewed by way more than by those who rate or comment. Who knows who you might be reaching.
Happy New Year to you, Libby, may your year ahead be filled with hope : )
you're a kid who needs a life if i ever saw one in the blogosphere. happy new year. find a human being to love and read novels about real people.
Never got the "snip" stuff. Is that like a secret handshake or somethin'?
You would leave a gaping hole, I hope your introspection compels you to stay for a while longer. :)
Progs have been known to have a Streisand-like humorless streak since the time of the Narodniki and People's Will in Russia in the 1870s. Reactionaries veil their lack of humor streak with a taste for cruel contempt, to be fair.
As to the first humorless Progs in the Narodniki, Populists in Russian, they flaunted dismissing aristo-bourgeois conventions, not appreciating their discrete charms, although, that charm often wears thin, and, have a happy New Year too.
As to the first humorless Progs in the Narodniki, Populists in Russian, they flaunted dismissing aristo-bourgeois conventions, not appreciating their discrete charms, although, that charm often wears thin, and, have a happy New Year too.
What Lezlie said.
Leave out God and the Serenity Prayer is pure Buddhism: “...grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change. The courage to change the things I can. And the wisdom to know the difference.”
To which I might add, "...and the foolish persistence to keep trying to change the things that most likely won't change until long after we're gone."
Hang in there kiddo, check your course, keep self-correcting and try to remember it ain't about the destination it's all about the journey. R&R and here's hoping that you and yours have the very best New Year.
To which I might add, "...and the foolish persistence to keep trying to change the things that most likely won't change until long after we're gone."
Hang in there kiddo, check your course, keep self-correcting and try to remember it ain't about the destination it's all about the journey. R&R and here's hoping that you and yours have the very best New Year.
Rated for your openness, and Don Rich's comment, too. I happen to love that scene, btw.
Have to say I don't come around here because I got tired of being called a crony- murderer-warmonger. But I've been called worse. Have a healthy, happy New Year, Libby. I wish you all the best.
/r.
Have to say I don't come around here because I got tired of being called a crony- murderer-warmonger. But I've been called worse. Have a healthy, happy New Year, Libby. I wish you all the best.
/r.
To me, the real radicals are the ones who want to maintain the status quo or have hope for its false solutions (Hi Obamacare!). Day someone stops calling you a radical then fear you're no longer on the side of justice because justice for this world will bring a radical upheaval.
Frankly, I think you can cross the line sometimes, Libby, but we all have to find our own balance so it's none of my business. Lord knows I've crossed it even if no one calls me out - we all do it. It's those who've deemed themselves "right" without question who scare me, be they left or right.
All in all, it's good to smoke a doobie sometimes and leave the world to itself. To quote Harold and Kumar, "The universe tends to unfold as it should."
Frankly, I think you can cross the line sometimes, Libby, but we all have to find our own balance so it's none of my business. Lord knows I've crossed it even if no one calls me out - we all do it. It's those who've deemed themselves "right" without question who scare me, be they left or right.
All in all, it's good to smoke a doobie sometimes and leave the world to itself. To quote Harold and Kumar, "The universe tends to unfold as it should."
it looks like something profoundly wonderful has found you.
the Johari Window? one of my favorites: the Known, the Unknown, the Open and the Hidden in each of us; of each of us.
that more could come to such inner insightfulness, or 'mindfulness' as M. Feike once said.
Happy New Year Libby.
the Johari Window? one of my favorites: the Known, the Unknown, the Open and the Hidden in each of us; of each of us.
that more could come to such inner insightfulness, or 'mindfulness' as M. Feike once said.
Happy New Year Libby.
Get up and take some pix! It's good for all of us to see through your lens. Happy happy happy new year, compadre!
Happy New Year, Libby. Glad to see you back.
I admire your persistence and your intense concern with presenting the facts with a forceful emotional backup to indicate that the ongoing trouble is immense and must be faced and dealt with before it becomes overwhelming.
Nevertheless I am growing totally weary of those who seem to have somewhat the same general motivations as me towards a better political atmosphere but seem eager to swallow the obvious fake indications by the present administrations that things can be improved without some kind of fundamental change.
Any efforts I make are equivalent to batting my head against a brick wall and there is very little if any movement towards fundamental change. I have more or less given up trying to convince anybody of anything with facts or logic. Humanity seems irretrievable set to smash itself up with its own monstrous brutality and irrevocable stupidity. I applaud your efforts and your sustainability but the situation which now requires sense and intense effort to confront the natural forces gathering to make the planet uninhabitable are being largely ignored by those who might be able to at least try to survive. I am terribly sorry and wish you well.
Nevertheless I am growing totally weary of those who seem to have somewhat the same general motivations as me towards a better political atmosphere but seem eager to swallow the obvious fake indications by the present administrations that things can be improved without some kind of fundamental change.
Any efforts I make are equivalent to batting my head against a brick wall and there is very little if any movement towards fundamental change. I have more or less given up trying to convince anybody of anything with facts or logic. Humanity seems irretrievable set to smash itself up with its own monstrous brutality and irrevocable stupidity. I applaud your efforts and your sustainability but the situation which now requires sense and intense effort to confront the natural forces gathering to make the planet uninhabitable are being largely ignored by those who might be able to at least try to survive. I am terribly sorry and wish you well.
Libby, this was great and so nice to hear from you. I love that you blog on Open. We do need you here. I love to blog and one thing I like about it is that it is quick. This new technological age is going fast and it seems that just when you think things are spinning one way it all shifts and you see another angle. I think we are headed for a new kind of time and space. That said, I would read more of your blogs if they weren't so long. I guess I am old or lazy or inept but I can only get my info in short bites. Life is fragile and over before we know it. Happy New Year and I'm glad you are relaxed from your trip.
It's for a good cause.
There are a number of us who blog here on OS who are trying to offer solutions to our problems. Some offer band-aid solutions for bits and pieces of the difficulties we have; some offer deep system changes.
But for anyone to understand what any of us are going on about it is necessary for people to understand what the problems are, who is behind them, who benefits from creating more of them, and all that grass roots basic stuff - the stuff that you are so good at providing.
Keep it up dear Bonnie, it informs and educates.
Lubs ya!........Sky
;-)
R
.
But for anyone to understand what any of us are going on about it is necessary for people to understand what the problems are, who is behind them, who benefits from creating more of them, and all that grass roots basic stuff - the stuff that you are so good at providing.
Keep it up dear Bonnie, it informs and educates.
Lubs ya!........Sky
;-)
R
.
More power to your elbow, Libby.
To the naysayers I say listen ; learn up, there's information here.
Quite apart from all that, you're quite the chick, & you're loved on OS.
To the naysayers I say listen ; learn up, there's information here.
Quite apart from all that, you're quite the chick, & you're loved on OS.
You're an exceptionally talented and intelligent individual and you care deeply about society. Very few have your vision, your passion and the ability to put words to them both. People like you are beacons of hope for people like me.
First off, happy 2014 to you libby.
As for your OS angst, a while back I recall you writing that one of your aims here was to raise consciousness. I've no doubt you've achieved that, especially on the topics of drones and the surveillance state.
When you set out to critique something, you don't mince words. That is bound to sometimes evoke unminced words from those who take issue with what you write. That takes a thick skin and it's no wonder that sometimes the harsher of the counterpoints take their toll. But you're not writing the comfort the masses and bland bromides aren't your style. So much of the blowback goes with the territory. If I can use an analogy, you're aiming more for Mother Courage than Mama Mia. You really wouldn't want it otherwise, would you?
Take a break if it's wearing on you but please don't leave. Yours is an important voice here and I've no doubt I speak for many in saying you'd be greatly missed.
Cheers!
As for your OS angst, a while back I recall you writing that one of your aims here was to raise consciousness. I've no doubt you've achieved that, especially on the topics of drones and the surveillance state.
When you set out to critique something, you don't mince words. That is bound to sometimes evoke unminced words from those who take issue with what you write. That takes a thick skin and it's no wonder that sometimes the harsher of the counterpoints take their toll. But you're not writing the comfort the masses and bland bromides aren't your style. So much of the blowback goes with the territory. If I can use an analogy, you're aiming more for Mother Courage than Mama Mia. You really wouldn't want it otherwise, would you?
Take a break if it's wearing on you but please don't leave. Yours is an important voice here and I've no doubt I speak for many in saying you'd be greatly missed.
Cheers!
Mastery of studied contempt, the devastating snide remark, these are the hallmarks of Reactionaries, their signature.
Progs have learned to show more humor over the years, hence Prog Flow offering a threesome to the youngsters in the parking lot, Cougar, Prog Style, the Cougar itself something of a Prog creation, if not exclusively. Mean Girls of course explains much of this.
Progs have learned to show more humor over the years, hence Prog Flow offering a threesome to the youngsters in the parking lot, Cougar, Prog Style, the Cougar itself something of a Prog creation, if not exclusively. Mean Girls of course explains much of this.
Your "work" on here certainly is not in vain. And, that includes your connectionless interaction with people you may believe you are alienating. Not all interactions need be loving and compassionate to impact another's existence or beliefs. In fact, I think there is a sound argument to be made that they cannot all be loving and compassionate because of our condition as human beings.
While I am sure some people would never admit it, some you perceive as alienating have actually developed a greater awareness and higher level of consciousness by interacting with you. Look at this Ben Sen guy. He comes back time and again to razz you. But, why is it that he comes back? Maybe he is just an asshole. But more likely, while he wouldn't admit it, he has actually become more aware and informed by reading your remarks.
What often is seemingly insignificant can and does have a profound impact on other's realities. It is not up to us to judge. Life is a journey that is without destination. As we open a door, another one appears that we need to find a way to open. Your style is your style and without judging it, it is who you are in this moment. Not everyone in this world is going to embrace you. But, do you attempt to be authentic and true to your own ideals, virtues and values? Then, all that matters is your recognition of your own worthiness. Others will see in you what they will. Often we do so without recognition of why. Even if we are mindful.
You and only you know what is in your heart and no one can take that away from you. Nor can they define or judge you without knowing what exists inside of you.
Keep the faith. You are making a difference in your life and in the lives of others.
While I am sure some people would never admit it, some you perceive as alienating have actually developed a greater awareness and higher level of consciousness by interacting with you. Look at this Ben Sen guy. He comes back time and again to razz you. But, why is it that he comes back? Maybe he is just an asshole. But more likely, while he wouldn't admit it, he has actually become more aware and informed by reading your remarks.
What often is seemingly insignificant can and does have a profound impact on other's realities. It is not up to us to judge. Life is a journey that is without destination. As we open a door, another one appears that we need to find a way to open. Your style is your style and without judging it, it is who you are in this moment. Not everyone in this world is going to embrace you. But, do you attempt to be authentic and true to your own ideals, virtues and values? Then, all that matters is your recognition of your own worthiness. Others will see in you what they will. Often we do so without recognition of why. Even if we are mindful.
You and only you know what is in your heart and no one can take that away from you. Nor can they define or judge you without knowing what exists inside of you.
Keep the faith. You are making a difference in your life and in the lives of others.
hey you muckraking negativist propagandist! happy new yr! :)
I read every one of your pieces, but sometimes just don't know what to say. They are like gut punches...in a good way!
I guess what I worry about is YOU getting too worked up and incensed...I have been there, when I consider the field
I work in, off and on..the treatment of the mentally disabled...
I use humor as a weapon..
but a lot of shit aint funny, I know , I know..
stick around. I got a lot to learn, god help me.
I read every one of your pieces, but sometimes just don't know what to say. They are like gut punches...in a good way!
I guess what I worry about is YOU getting too worked up and incensed...I have been there, when I consider the field
I work in, off and on..the treatment of the mentally disabled...
I use humor as a weapon..
but a lot of shit aint funny, I know , I know..
stick around. I got a lot to learn, god help me.
This is a wonderful post because I finally get some insight into what really makes you human. There is more to identity than politics. Thank you, and happy new year to you!
rated yesterday Libby.. just making it back to leave a really important comment---important to ME. Kidding. Sometimes, rarely, it's not about me.
Well then.. you certainly ARE a very skilled writer. I seriously can't think of one around here better. That said, is it "I sight saw," or I sight seed? Kidding!
"Often on Open Salon I want to communicate what I earnestly believe is the real “reality” of our collective situation as the US family and the human family."
And you do, very well too.
I guess I would ask you to inject a little bit of humor into the doom and gloom, because afterall, sometimes, all that is left is to laugh.
Not that the subject matter is haha funny.
Obama for example though .. an easy target. Shred him with wit while exposing evil reality ... or something. Welcome home.
Happy New Year Libby
Well then.. you certainly ARE a very skilled writer. I seriously can't think of one around here better. That said, is it "I sight saw," or I sight seed? Kidding!
"Often on Open Salon I want to communicate what I earnestly believe is the real “reality” of our collective situation as the US family and the human family."
And you do, very well too.
I guess I would ask you to inject a little bit of humor into the doom and gloom, because afterall, sometimes, all that is left is to laugh.
Not that the subject matter is haha funny.
Obama for example though .. an easy target. Shred him with wit while exposing evil reality ... or something. Welcome home.
Happy New Year Libby
wow look at all these comments. it seems to immediately refute some level of alienation. its luck to get just 2-3 comments on a single blog. isnt every comment basically a validation?
CG says "sometimes youve stepped over the line". a line?!? on open salon? for blogging? wtf?!? haha. you should be quite proud youve stepped over the line. I dont recall when that was. maybe someone can point it out. it would be quite amusing to debate.
muckracker? negative? the world is full of negativity. if we blithely ignore it, it only proves we're oblivious to reality....probably even ostriches have more self awareness than that.
yes the snowden revelations are pretty unbelievable at times and they just keep coming. profoundly disturbing and alienating in many ways. however, obama is reviewing these over his hawaiian vac, and promises to come up with a decision on realignment in january. just the fact that it has become an issue of national priority is utterly stunning. last time this happened was over 5yr ago with the bush NSA revelations [and before that TIA yrs earlier]. it goes in cycles. its like stock market bubbles & crashes. its a healthy realignment I think....
hey Im at least as controversial as you are, probably significantly worse, and look how many responses you get writing about exactly some of the same topics. its really phenomenal. youve touched a nerve. keep on goring the sacred cow I say. the current world is so mixed up/confusing/disoriented its not even clear exactly what the sacred cows are anymore.... maybe that is a good thing[tm].... a mass reorientation seems to be taking place.... its a very,very rare moment of vulnerability for the national security state/tyranny lite.... lets celebrate the advance achieved in the last year, a year ago it was literally unthinkable....
CG says "sometimes youve stepped over the line". a line?!? on open salon? for blogging? wtf?!? haha. you should be quite proud youve stepped over the line. I dont recall when that was. maybe someone can point it out. it would be quite amusing to debate.
muckracker? negative? the world is full of negativity. if we blithely ignore it, it only proves we're oblivious to reality....probably even ostriches have more self awareness than that.
yes the snowden revelations are pretty unbelievable at times and they just keep coming. profoundly disturbing and alienating in many ways. however, obama is reviewing these over his hawaiian vac, and promises to come up with a decision on realignment in january. just the fact that it has become an issue of national priority is utterly stunning. last time this happened was over 5yr ago with the bush NSA revelations [and before that TIA yrs earlier]. it goes in cycles. its like stock market bubbles & crashes. its a healthy realignment I think....
hey Im at least as controversial as you are, probably significantly worse, and look how many responses you get writing about exactly some of the same topics. its really phenomenal. youve touched a nerve. keep on goring the sacred cow I say. the current world is so mixed up/confusing/disoriented its not even clear exactly what the sacred cows are anymore.... maybe that is a good thing[tm].... a mass reorientation seems to be taking place.... its a very,very rare moment of vulnerability for the national security state/tyranny lite.... lets celebrate the advance achieved in the last year, a year ago it was literally unthinkable....
ps re your insight into therapy & codependency-- maybe that is *exactly* the perspective that is required to sort thru our current predicament. perhaps codependency accurately describes the default relationship between the unwashed american masses & their govt....
I am astonished and so very grateful and humbled over this outpouring of feedback and good will. Thank you all so very much!
kosh, thanks for being so encouraging and open to me and such a frequent, thorough and attentive reader so often! I know on certain things we have very different sensibilities but on others we are in complete agreement which I really am appreciating! I look forward to sorting through the important questions with you in 2014! best, libby
JL- you are so "classy" and even more than that. Talk about grace. I admire you so as a profoundly talented writer and such a generous and grounded citizen of Open Salon. Your blogs are always an uplifting pleasure. And this one would have been if I had not been in such a troubled mood and had not totally misplaced my sense of humor to my shame and immediate astonishment.
Then you graciously made my amends to you so easy for me -- so generously easy -- by coming to me so early on on this blog with your generously affirming and loving comment. Thank you for your grace, resilience and responsiveness to me. Your words were exactly the reassurance I was craving.
I needed to do a "reality check" at open salon about my role and impact and that petulance on your blog was certainly a wrong-way impulsive ticket for that. I had no idea what soon after poured out of me above would provoke a serious and satisfying response from you and so many here. I feel humbled and grateful.
I have invested a lot of time and effort researching and communicating here and that has always given me a payoff to sort things out for myself before anyone else even read my blogs. My open salon time logged has certainly been a "growth experience" for me as a citizen, a writer and a person. I am trying to find a greater balance in my life activities and a re-prioritizing with my writing ongoing as well as trying to face down my own "issues". Re-setting my emotional clock in a way. It certainly was in serious need of re-setting I discovered! Thanks for your serendipitous help with it all! best, libby xxx
kosh, thanks for being so encouraging and open to me and such a frequent, thorough and attentive reader so often! I know on certain things we have very different sensibilities but on others we are in complete agreement which I really am appreciating! I look forward to sorting through the important questions with you in 2014! best, libby
JL- you are so "classy" and even more than that. Talk about grace. I admire you so as a profoundly talented writer and such a generous and grounded citizen of Open Salon. Your blogs are always an uplifting pleasure. And this one would have been if I had not been in such a troubled mood and had not totally misplaced my sense of humor to my shame and immediate astonishment.
Then you graciously made my amends to you so easy for me -- so generously easy -- by coming to me so early on on this blog with your generously affirming and loving comment. Thank you for your grace, resilience and responsiveness to me. Your words were exactly the reassurance I was craving.
I needed to do a "reality check" at open salon about my role and impact and that petulance on your blog was certainly a wrong-way impulsive ticket for that. I had no idea what soon after poured out of me above would provoke a serious and satisfying response from you and so many here. I feel humbled and grateful.
I have invested a lot of time and effort researching and communicating here and that has always given me a payoff to sort things out for myself before anyone else even read my blogs. My open salon time logged has certainly been a "growth experience" for me as a citizen, a writer and a person. I am trying to find a greater balance in my life activities and a re-prioritizing with my writing ongoing as well as trying to face down my own "issues". Re-setting my emotional clock in a way. It certainly was in serious need of re-setting I discovered! Thanks for your serendipitous help with it all! best, libby xxx
Poor Woman, thanks for your honesty and sensibility. Peace back to you, my friend.
Gerald, your support is very precious to me. High praise coming from an awesome writer and person like you. Thank you! I think my needs for a variety of dimensions of creativity in addition to my political writing deserve more time from me in 2014 but the urgency of our political plight in America is so compelling always. And yes so worth sacrificing for, but not to a diminishing returns extent for me as a person or for my effectiveness. Gandhi said to be the change one wants to see in the world. I think meditating on that one might help me these days. best, libby xxx
Gerald, your support is very precious to me. High praise coming from an awesome writer and person like you. Thank you! I think my needs for a variety of dimensions of creativity in addition to my political writing deserve more time from me in 2014 but the urgency of our political plight in America is so compelling always. And yes so worth sacrificing for, but not to a diminishing returns extent for me as a person or for my effectiveness. Gandhi said to be the change one wants to see in the world. I think meditating on that one might help me these days. best, libby xxx
Thank you for your good post.
vzn commented:
"... a mass reorientation seems to be taking place ..."
I think that Snowden's revelations will certainly have some effect. For me those revelations themselves haven't been much surprising, but the thing that he has managed to do them.
Let's try to make this new year better than the previous one.
vzn commented:
"... a mass reorientation seems to be taking place ..."
I think that Snowden's revelations will certainly have some effect. For me those revelations themselves haven't been much surprising, but the thing that he has managed to do them.
Let's try to make this new year better than the previous one.
"“All you had to do was laugh. You had them!” Redford mourned."
Libby, I admit, I did laugh at first at jl's teasing, knowing it to be meant in good humor...but somehow being called a weirdo in a thrift store also left slivers that have painfully found their way in. You're not the only one.
I didn't think your sensitivity to be petulant over there, just sensitive.
Your writing a whole post about it afterward casts your sensitivity in a lovely light. You're a good person.
Cheers to a good year ahead, with reason for hope in the world ~
Libby, I admit, I did laugh at first at jl's teasing, knowing it to be meant in good humor...but somehow being called a weirdo in a thrift store also left slivers that have painfully found their way in. You're not the only one.
I didn't think your sensitivity to be petulant over there, just sensitive.
Your writing a whole post about it afterward casts your sensitivity in a lovely light. You're a good person.
Cheers to a good year ahead, with reason for hope in the world ~
Lezlie, thank you so much for that expression of respect. It means a lot. Happy new year!
kosh, what a perfect light bulb joke to offer up! :-) thanks!
steel breeze, appreciate your honesty and thanks so much for the empathy re "off-kilt" days! that really says it. too bad my keyboard fingers too eagerly like to do the walking on such days much to my soon after confusion and alarm.
just thinking, thanks so much for your comfort, reassurance and wisdom. I appreciate but maybe not enough the multi-dimensional value of this writing community and 3D realities of us all. I think my reservoir of hope had reached a critical low and am grateful it is getting restored significantly now by the good will of so many fellow open saloners like you.
You are so wise about how one never knows who and how one reaches. I know I have been gifted so often by what I have read. Sometimes I don't get the gift immediately. Sometimes the words and ideas of others come to haunt me later on more reflection. Thanks for that reminder.
Have a wonderful and fulfilling new year! best, libby
kosh, what a perfect light bulb joke to offer up! :-) thanks!
steel breeze, appreciate your honesty and thanks so much for the empathy re "off-kilt" days! that really says it. too bad my keyboard fingers too eagerly like to do the walking on such days much to my soon after confusion and alarm.
just thinking, thanks so much for your comfort, reassurance and wisdom. I appreciate but maybe not enough the multi-dimensional value of this writing community and 3D realities of us all. I think my reservoir of hope had reached a critical low and am grateful it is getting restored significantly now by the good will of so many fellow open saloners like you.
You are so wise about how one never knows who and how one reaches. I know I have been gifted so often by what I have read. Sometimes I don't get the gift immediately. Sometimes the words and ideas of others come to haunt me later on more reflection. Thanks for that reminder.
Have a wonderful and fulfilling new year! best, libby
happy new year, ben. (I'm no kid, btw)
joisey, "snip" indicates a gap of less relevant text between quotes. it isn't my invention. I saw it used and used it myself in other websites like firedoglake, etc.for a long time. I found it useful since I quote a lot. happy new year.
just phyllis, your generosity and great spirit always inspire! thanks for commenting! :-)
thanks, Don. interesting comment. happy new year! progs = progressives? Would like to hear your and others' takes on significance of Stewart and Colbert type political satire as citizen catharsis and consciousness raising. I think it is a mixed blessing at times myself. The illusion that there is accountability. Public shaming often without hope of legal or mainstream media followup and a long but still corporate media leash? Also, "celebrity political personalities" ingratiate as guests and are not called out or held responsible often for their morally questionable policies. Some seem to get a pass. Yet, there are also times when they are confronted in important ways by the hosts. Hard truths made more palatable with humor. Though was it Vidal who said satire is now dead based on the surreal conditions we politically exist in? Can't remember exactly who said it. I just googled. I did come up with this: "Political satire became obsolete when Henry Kissinger was awarded the Nobel peace prize" from that brilliant satirist Tom Lehrer.
best, libby
joisey, "snip" indicates a gap of less relevant text between quotes. it isn't my invention. I saw it used and used it myself in other websites like firedoglake, etc.for a long time. I found it useful since I quote a lot. happy new year.
just phyllis, your generosity and great spirit always inspire! thanks for commenting! :-)
thanks, Don. interesting comment. happy new year! progs = progressives? Would like to hear your and others' takes on significance of Stewart and Colbert type political satire as citizen catharsis and consciousness raising. I think it is a mixed blessing at times myself. The illusion that there is accountability. Public shaming often without hope of legal or mainstream media followup and a long but still corporate media leash? Also, "celebrity political personalities" ingratiate as guests and are not called out or held responsible often for their morally questionable policies. Some seem to get a pass. Yet, there are also times when they are confronted in important ways by the hosts. Hard truths made more palatable with humor. Though was it Vidal who said satire is now dead based on the surreal conditions we politically exist in? Can't remember exactly who said it. I just googled. I did come up with this: "Political satire became obsolete when Henry Kissinger was awarded the Nobel peace prize" from that brilliant satirist Tom Lehrer.
best, libby
will be back! thanks again for comments and rates. libby
Libby,
There are two responses to some of your analysis that are easy to confuse and I'd like to do what I can to separate them.
The first has to do with diagnosing the patient. That our country is sick is undeniable. Some disagree with your diagnosis - how sick and what the disease is (or are).
The second has to do with prescribing remedies, both short term and long term.
A remedy has two criteria:
It has to be available. (If it's astronomically expensive and insurance doesn't cover it, it's useless.)
It has to work - it has to help the patient.
I think that some of what's frustrating you is that you perceive most of your disagreements to be over diagnosis. I would disagree. Personally, I concur with most of your diagnosis (not all, no need for specifics here.) and I know many others who do.
At least for those of us who concur with your diagnosis, I would suggest a stronger focus on the prescriptive aspect, on the effectiveness and availability of treatment.
I'm watching your frustration, and I'm watching the reaction to you. That's where I think the biggest issue lives: over confusing diagnosis and prescription. You have won more of the diagnosis battle than you give yourself credit for. We need more of your attention on prescription.
There are two responses to some of your analysis that are easy to confuse and I'd like to do what I can to separate them.
The first has to do with diagnosing the patient. That our country is sick is undeniable. Some disagree with your diagnosis - how sick and what the disease is (or are).
The second has to do with prescribing remedies, both short term and long term.
A remedy has two criteria:
It has to be available. (If it's astronomically expensive and insurance doesn't cover it, it's useless.)
It has to work - it has to help the patient.
I think that some of what's frustrating you is that you perceive most of your disagreements to be over diagnosis. I would disagree. Personally, I concur with most of your diagnosis (not all, no need for specifics here.) and I know many others who do.
At least for those of us who concur with your diagnosis, I would suggest a stronger focus on the prescriptive aspect, on the effectiveness and availability of treatment.
I'm watching your frustration, and I'm watching the reaction to you. That's where I think the biggest issue lives: over confusing diagnosis and prescription. You have won more of the diagnosis battle than you give yourself credit for. We need more of your attention on prescription.
Myriad, happy new year!
Your addition to the SP is quite the challenge, jmac. Thanks for your ongoing humor, wisdom and support. Happy new year, my friend. Buddhism. a counterpoint to ego for sure.
Onislandtime. Appreciate you commenting. Hmmm ... will it help if I say it wasn't personal per se? Wishing you all the best in the new year as well!!
CG, thanks for commenting. Injustice is truly rampant. The status quo deserves mass reform. Yes, balancing is an ongoing challenge for sure. HNY.
Steve, Johari window so insightful -- appreciated the names of each pane. thanks for your enthusiasm and validation! HNY!!!
Nilesite, thanks for commenting and for the inspiration you provide me with with your wonderful commentaries and pix!!!
Stuart, congratulations and thank you for your powerful writings and your stamina in spreading to all of us discomfiting and disturbing truth about power. The book news is inspiring. That wonderful blog about Mandela most recently I read on dissident voice and was thrilled about before I even realized it was you as author! No surprise for me, though. Thought it was one of os's and dv's best!!! Happy New Year and so glad you are around!!!
Jan, your ongoing always eloquent, penetrating and inspiring words of analysis and support have been invaluable. Thank you. I feel that the consciousness raising to realpolitik is happening with more and more citizens, helped by the stinging reality of the ever-expanding economic quicksands, but that consciousness-raising seems so tragically incremental -- glacial -- thanks to the "lesser evil" rationalizing of the leaders of Team Dem and the manipulative corporate-run 24/7 mainstream media omissions and disinformation.
I still try to believe in the 100 hundred monkeys theory. When 100 monkeys get "it" then the whole monkey nation suddenly gets "it" as well. Fighting the ever-lying media and pols makes the truth so hard to push through to that 100th monkey. We messengers are delivering really bad news and often inspire angry pushback and contempt. When what we warned about ultimately becomes public and finally accepted as reality there seems blanket amnesia for how our early disclosures were exactly on point and we are continued to be branded as discomfiting alarmists rather than validated as on the vanguard as we call out collective endangerments for so many citizens of the US and/or the world.
The extent of corruption and toxic cronyism in both parties needs to be called out by members of both parties and they -- we -- need to stop being manipulated and distracted by the media. The media now run internationally mostly by 6 transnational mega-conglomerates follows the corporate personality profile rules of psychopathic manipulation for profit.
I see DeBlasio in NYC as new mayor making so many promises and yet so enmeshed in the Dem party machine and the celebrity Clinton clique that is more of the realpolitik pro-Wall St. anti-citizen status quo.
There are so many disclosures coming out of alternate media defied and denied by mainstream media, I feel like such clusters of alarming information are like all those candies coming down the assembly ramp rapid fire at that proverbial Lucy in her chocolate factory. Organizing and monitoring them for consumption by me as a citizen muckraking activist is daunting and frustratingly challenging -- more and more so.
As I tried to catch up with the latest round of disclosures I had been away from over vacation I really felt depressed and discouraged. Hope is an essential ingredient for change (and once again, the "hope" "change" referencing has been tainted by Obama's original propaganda messaging, sigh). I cherish opportunities for hope, Jan. You and I and others are making a difference. It is late in the game I know. The game has been so thoroughly rigged. But fighting for justice and humanity is the only course for conscience.
best, libby
Your addition to the SP is quite the challenge, jmac. Thanks for your ongoing humor, wisdom and support. Happy new year, my friend. Buddhism. a counterpoint to ego for sure.
Onislandtime. Appreciate you commenting. Hmmm ... will it help if I say it wasn't personal per se? Wishing you all the best in the new year as well!!
CG, thanks for commenting. Injustice is truly rampant. The status quo deserves mass reform. Yes, balancing is an ongoing challenge for sure. HNY.
Steve, Johari window so insightful -- appreciated the names of each pane. thanks for your enthusiasm and validation! HNY!!!
Nilesite, thanks for commenting and for the inspiration you provide me with with your wonderful commentaries and pix!!!
Stuart, congratulations and thank you for your powerful writings and your stamina in spreading to all of us discomfiting and disturbing truth about power. The book news is inspiring. That wonderful blog about Mandela most recently I read on dissident voice and was thrilled about before I even realized it was you as author! No surprise for me, though. Thought it was one of os's and dv's best!!! Happy New Year and so glad you are around!!!
Jan, your ongoing always eloquent, penetrating and inspiring words of analysis and support have been invaluable. Thank you. I feel that the consciousness raising to realpolitik is happening with more and more citizens, helped by the stinging reality of the ever-expanding economic quicksands, but that consciousness-raising seems so tragically incremental -- glacial -- thanks to the "lesser evil" rationalizing of the leaders of Team Dem and the manipulative corporate-run 24/7 mainstream media omissions and disinformation.
I still try to believe in the 100 hundred monkeys theory. When 100 monkeys get "it" then the whole monkey nation suddenly gets "it" as well. Fighting the ever-lying media and pols makes the truth so hard to push through to that 100th monkey. We messengers are delivering really bad news and often inspire angry pushback and contempt. When what we warned about ultimately becomes public and finally accepted as reality there seems blanket amnesia for how our early disclosures were exactly on point and we are continued to be branded as discomfiting alarmists rather than validated as on the vanguard as we call out collective endangerments for so many citizens of the US and/or the world.
The extent of corruption and toxic cronyism in both parties needs to be called out by members of both parties and they -- we -- need to stop being manipulated and distracted by the media. The media now run internationally mostly by 6 transnational mega-conglomerates follows the corporate personality profile rules of psychopathic manipulation for profit.
I see DeBlasio in NYC as new mayor making so many promises and yet so enmeshed in the Dem party machine and the celebrity Clinton clique that is more of the realpolitik pro-Wall St. anti-citizen status quo.
There are so many disclosures coming out of alternate media defied and denied by mainstream media, I feel like such clusters of alarming information are like all those candies coming down the assembly ramp rapid fire at that proverbial Lucy in her chocolate factory. Organizing and monitoring them for consumption by me as a citizen muckraking activist is daunting and frustratingly challenging -- more and more so.
As I tried to catch up with the latest round of disclosures I had been away from over vacation I really felt depressed and discouraged. Hope is an essential ingredient for change (and once again, the "hope" "change" referencing has been tainted by Obama's original propaganda messaging, sigh). I cherish opportunities for hope, Jan. You and I and others are making a difference. It is late in the game I know. The game has been so thoroughly rigged. But fighting for justice and humanity is the only course for conscience.
best, libby
will be back! thanks again! libby
u may be old but you're a kid still stamping her foot trying to get her self-righteous way. you've learned nothing here.
And I'm hearing big foot stomping righteousness from you right now, Ben. Superciliousness can be IRRATIONALLY brittle and hostile as it masquerades as being "rational" and omniscient!
You're not a liberal, you debase the word, you're a loon. You're unique in how totally irrelevant you've managed to remain all this time, and I'm frustrated since you keep promising to go away after stamping your foot but you won't go! I bet you'll stay now for no other reason than to demonstrate just how obtuse you are. I don't care how many folks keep blowing smoke up your ass.
No need to keep showing up here then, Ben Sen - you're just being rude at this point.
She's on her own page, be aggressive on your own blog.
She's on her own page, be aggressive on your own blog.
just thinking. you really don't have to kiss her ass, you know, she's perfectly capable of defending herself, ignoring anything anybody says to her, and even deleting it!
Zanelle, thanks so much for your comment once again. I hear you once again about seeking blogs that are quicker and easier reads than many of mine. I think if I turned them over more slowly they would be more concise and distilled. Maybe I should shoot for that more often. Who was it, Mark, Twain, who ironically apologized in a letter and said, "I'm sorry, I did not have time to make this letter shorter." Thanks for your good will and back at you for a great new year, my friend. best,
"It's for a good cause." Thanks, II. That is the bottom line for sure.
sky, so appreciate what you are saying. we need to understand collectively the scope and depth of the corruption in all its shocking and awe-full detail. I appreciated your earlier metaphor about the avalanche sliding down the mountain. These are desperate times and need to be fathomed and collectively responded to. We need leadership to take us the right and moral direction. Neither Dem or Republican Party seem capable of that. We need to gather our own level leadership, form a party for the citizenry, since the institutional leadership we have now despite gift-wrapped faux-populist rhetoric promotes economic and social heartlessness. Both parties are rotten and have gone to the dark side of psychopathic personality corporate rigged gamesmanship. Willing to twist the law to trash the constitution. Willing to take the blank check of security over civil rights embraced after 9/11 and keep on accumulating illegitimate power and perpetrating massive criminality domestically and internationally. The longer the majority of Americans cling to denial fostered by "lesser evilism" rationalizations, the greater the suffering of humanity and the destruction of our very planet.
best, libby
"It's for a good cause." Thanks, II. That is the bottom line for sure.
sky, so appreciate what you are saying. we need to understand collectively the scope and depth of the corruption in all its shocking and awe-full detail. I appreciated your earlier metaphor about the avalanche sliding down the mountain. These are desperate times and need to be fathomed and collectively responded to. We need leadership to take us the right and moral direction. Neither Dem or Republican Party seem capable of that. We need to gather our own level leadership, form a party for the citizenry, since the institutional leadership we have now despite gift-wrapped faux-populist rhetoric promotes economic and social heartlessness. Both parties are rotten and have gone to the dark side of psychopathic personality corporate rigged gamesmanship. Willing to twist the law to trash the constitution. Willing to take the blank check of security over civil rights embraced after 9/11 and keep on accumulating illegitimate power and perpetrating massive criminality domestically and internationally. The longer the majority of Americans cling to denial fostered by "lesser evilism" rationalizations, the greater the suffering of humanity and the destruction of our very planet.
best, libby
More IRRATIONAL anger from Ben. Using the word "ass" certainly adds to its earnestness.
I don't kiss anyone's ass, Ben Sen, but I will stand up when I notice aggression or bullying, regardless.
I don't choose to enter another affray in 014 but I smiled at BS calling anyone"totally irrelevant."
Ha ha ha, Kim. I know EXACTLY what you mean! I lost it when JT claimed to stand up to bullying by anyone.
Abra, thanks so much for stopping by! Appreciate your counsel on all this. I think I was currently writing from an apolitical state but realize my dominant persona on open salon is political. I think my personae banged into each other suddenly. I was out of the political information loop for two whole weeks and girding myself to re-enter but not quite yet. I am grateful I am not sniped at more often. Most open saloners clearly subscribe to the "live and let live" code of sharing. And I do feel there is a shift happening where there is more critical thinking going on about economic and social injustice from the government in general and not just one party, since I have struggled so hard to focus a spotlight on the lesser explored Dem Party failings. I know dealing with the johari window honesty stuff, I can manage short term bravado better than long term courage, but I am working on that! Happy new year, my friend! Appreciate how supportive and open you have been to me since I have been here! best, libby
onislandtime sorry, and I wish you a happy New Year, but didn't JT just rebuke Ben Sen for his out-of-whack comment, or did I miss something here ?
TL, you are an inspiring example of wisdom and courage. thanks so much for the reminder that "messaging" is not all sweetness and light and as II wrote above the cause that motivates us is certainly important! I like the advice about the focus being on the process, TL, and Snowden's attitude of doing his part but not grandiosely demanding and expecting dramatic change. His disclosures are potential catalysts for change and he feels it is the turn of the American people to process that info if they possibly can.
I think it is good to inventory where one's energy is going and if it is aimed effectively and as jmac reminds, there is need for self-correction from time to time and to do it.
You are celebrating the wisdom of "live and let live" once again on os and that is a relief to think about. I honestly didn't think this blog that poured out of me would get serious attention but amazing how often on open salon when one is sincere and vulnerable people offer respect and patience and acceptance.
I think of that Anais Nin quote about how so often "We see things as we are and not they are" which is where I was when I popped off on JL's blog. I needed to do some personal stock-taking and process some feelings before forging forward again with the political stuff and my sudden defensiveness illuminated that for me.
Having a conscience is stressful in this what Maddow calls "ethical freakshow of a universe." But I also recognize there is a level of grace that people of conscience often achieve and I would love to sustain more often that state of being. Something to aim for!
I think I am particularly sensitive when people who are angry and irrational are calling me out as irrational and angry and not owning it in themselves. Especially when they are flinging judgments without facts and insights.
I think we need to encourage more expression of legitimate, understandably expressed feelings in our society and I think there is a knee-jerk anti-feeling-ness especially among progressives, who use the emotionality of right wingers as a sign of their "craziness". We are so cynical, numbed out and/or complacent about crises happening more and more these days. We also too often honor STYLE over substance. The media plays up the style over substance stuff all the time.
Take care, my friend, and thanks for the words of sense and comfort! HNY!!! best, libby
I think it is good to inventory where one's energy is going and if it is aimed effectively and as jmac reminds, there is need for self-correction from time to time and to do it.
You are celebrating the wisdom of "live and let live" once again on os and that is a relief to think about. I honestly didn't think this blog that poured out of me would get serious attention but amazing how often on open salon when one is sincere and vulnerable people offer respect and patience and acceptance.
I think of that Anais Nin quote about how so often "We see things as we are and not they are" which is where I was when I popped off on JL's blog. I needed to do some personal stock-taking and process some feelings before forging forward again with the political stuff and my sudden defensiveness illuminated that for me.
Having a conscience is stressful in this what Maddow calls "ethical freakshow of a universe." But I also recognize there is a level of grace that people of conscience often achieve and I would love to sustain more often that state of being. Something to aim for!
I think I am particularly sensitive when people who are angry and irrational are calling me out as irrational and angry and not owning it in themselves. Especially when they are flinging judgments without facts and insights.
I think we need to encourage more expression of legitimate, understandably expressed feelings in our society and I think there is a knee-jerk anti-feeling-ness especially among progressives, who use the emotionality of right wingers as a sign of their "craziness". We are so cynical, numbed out and/or complacent about crises happening more and more these days. We also too often honor STYLE over substance. The media plays up the style over substance stuff all the time.
Take care, my friend, and thanks for the words of sense and comfort! HNY!!! best, libby
Sorry, Libby, wasn't interested in starting something, just wish humans would treat each other decently, even if there's total disagreement on issues or whatever else.
OIT, if you refer to yourself being bullied, I didn't witness it. Please don't assume I followed any to all that you were involved in here last year, even if I noticed a bit among others.
I'm also not interested in dragging any of that into this year or in responding further at all here, but feel free on your own blog, I guess.
OIT, if you refer to yourself being bullied, I didn't witness it. Please don't assume I followed any to all that you were involved in here last year, even if I noticed a bit among others.
I'm also not interested in dragging any of that into this year or in responding further at all here, but feel free on your own blog, I guess.
back soon!
Happy New Year, Kim. It’s a Bran Nue Dae, isn’t it?
Libby wrote a very open post.I don’t want to distract from it or her comments. If you weren't able to understand my comment, I could explain but it would turn Libby’s comment thread off topic.
Libby wrote a very open post.I don’t want to distract from it or her comments. If you weren't able to understand my comment, I could explain but it would turn Libby’s comment thread off topic.
Sorry, JT, we posted at the same time. See answer to Kim.
Libby, enjoy your comments, and thanks for your reply. I'll have to send you a note about the Don Rich thing, it's one of those things that is funny to me, I guess because I have certainly been the humorless "Prog", which label I had never heard of prior to Don using the it. And I did love that scene in The Way We Were.
Libby, enjoy your comments, and thanks for your reply. I'll have to send you a note about the Don Rich thing, it's one of those things that is funny to me, I guess because I have certainly been the humorless "Prog", which label I had never heard of prior to Don using the it. And I did love that scene in The Way We Were.
It's a Bran Nue Dae indeed. My old contentious posts have gone ~ the ones where I & others stood up to bullying. It's a little early in the year to begin all that again, don't you think ?
I mean, "You're not a liberal, you debase the word, you're a loon. You're unique in how totally irrelevant you've managed to remain all this time…"
Really, what is that ??
I mean, "You're not a liberal, you debase the word, you're a loon. You're unique in how totally irrelevant you've managed to remain all this time…"
Really, what is that ??
JT, I appreciate your stance on my behalf with BS. Yours, too, Kim. Says more about him than me I'm thinking. I would like to be more than a radical lightning rod on open salon and that is up to me and others in the community but it is not possible with some and so be it.
OIT, thanks for reining back on an issue I did not understand either. I would very much like to hear more of the humorless prog analysis. I am fascinated by such patterns but think I am not getting the true gist of what Don was saying.
james, james, james. so great to hear from always disarming and charming you!!! I love your style of communication -- wry and intelligent and titillating and generous and warm and accessible and enlightening :-) Why you suddenly make me absolutely proud to be a muckraking negativist propagandist! and 2/3s of it rhymes! I see such courage as well as humor and awesome honesty role modeled from you. A "sense of the ridiculous" you often deftly share with all comers. An incredible consciousness-raising service you do. Personal self-disclosures are so profoundly impactful. My political writing doesn't challenge me as much in that way. But courage is contagious and the more I hear such honesty from my fellows like you the more it makes me want to share from my own vulnerable past experiences. You trigger empathy and common sense perspectives and encourage our own inventory-taking of our inner and outer realties. Write on, dear bro. I know if I hadn't had to wrestle with such profound authority issues growing up I probably wouldn't be tilting so headlong and intensely with the governmental powers that be today -- and that may not be entirely healthy in merging that fight quite and my passion may be off-putting to some readers -- but it does keep a fire in my belly to chase down dysfunction out of my own personal growth experiences -- I mean I survive family dysfunction as a kid to face down massive national family/community dysfunction in my govt as a citizen and adult. Maybe the Repubs represent the addict parent, and the Dems are the co-addict parent and both were messed up and destructively enmeshed and stress and pain got super-generated. That pisses me off. So I kind of use the residual anger and savvy, too, mind you, to make lemonade out of past lemony experiences of crazymaking stress and injustice Lemonade with a bite at times. (My open salon lemonade stand. Hah!) Thanks for the validation, my friend!
best, libby
OIT, thanks for reining back on an issue I did not understand either. I would very much like to hear more of the humorless prog analysis. I am fascinated by such patterns but think I am not getting the true gist of what Don was saying.
james, james, james. so great to hear from always disarming and charming you!!! I love your style of communication -- wry and intelligent and titillating and generous and warm and accessible and enlightening :-) Why you suddenly make me absolutely proud to be a muckraking negativist propagandist! and 2/3s of it rhymes! I see such courage as well as humor and awesome honesty role modeled from you. A "sense of the ridiculous" you often deftly share with all comers. An incredible consciousness-raising service you do. Personal self-disclosures are so profoundly impactful. My political writing doesn't challenge me as much in that way. But courage is contagious and the more I hear such honesty from my fellows like you the more it makes me want to share from my own vulnerable past experiences. You trigger empathy and common sense perspectives and encourage our own inventory-taking of our inner and outer realties. Write on, dear bro. I know if I hadn't had to wrestle with such profound authority issues growing up I probably wouldn't be tilting so headlong and intensely with the governmental powers that be today -- and that may not be entirely healthy in merging that fight quite and my passion may be off-putting to some readers -- but it does keep a fire in my belly to chase down dysfunction out of my own personal growth experiences -- I mean I survive family dysfunction as a kid to face down massive national family/community dysfunction in my govt as a citizen and adult. Maybe the Repubs represent the addict parent, and the Dems are the co-addict parent and both were messed up and destructively enmeshed and stress and pain got super-generated. That pisses me off. So I kind of use the residual anger and savvy, too, mind you, to make lemonade out of past lemony experiences of crazymaking stress and injustice Lemonade with a bite at times. (My open salon lemonade stand. Hah!) Thanks for the validation, my friend!
best, libby
will be back!
ONL, thanks for a thoughtful and generous comment. I know I have been such a contrarian about the Dems on your blogs and I appreciate your communications of hope and insight but I also have feared them, too, in a way. I hope we can rally to make good political "resolutions" for the new year. I know I have been less than optimistic when you have pointed out progress among the progressives that probably deserved more attention than I would grant it. But I think I have become so discouraged by the Dem Party that I feel giving them more slacked rope of trust will just result in their braiding the rope further for more nooses for the non-one percenters as they serve their main masters, the rich corporatists. We watch them screw the poor, homeless and jobless, as more and more Americans sink into those categories. When the Clintons gave their daughter a $3 million wedding it sickened me and was Exhibit A of their selling out big time for bucks and power. They had the potential to help America and they chose the pol road most travelled by. The betrayal by the NEOLIBS of the Dem Party is so damn serious and consistent and their efforts at reform are rhetorical, cosmetic and band aids (as sky said above) at best. I would like Dem party citizens to really shake the Dem Party up and RESIGN from it. Maybe then the Dems would get the message -- that we are pissed they betrayed us and that we will take back what is left of our constitutional power. Put an end to the lesser evilism game. Anyway, thanks for reading the non-libby persona above as she lapses with you into the libby one in her comment. My response to james e. above may give you more insight to what makes me tick re my political motivation personally speaking. happy new year to you! Thanks again. best, libby
trig, thank you for your comment. I appreciate the validation on my writing. Yeah, when I slapped down "sight saw" I kind of blinked for a few seconds, shrugged and moved on. I guess it is rarely or never used as a verb, eh? Maybe should have hyphenated even?
Anyway, in the bigger scheme of things I hear your take (not exclusive) that my doom and gloom, sky is falling messaging should have at least some humor-laden or at least less intense moments of commentary. Hmmmm. I know that Stewart and Colbert and Maddow and Hayes can pull that off. But I am not going for satire.
I showed my Silent Night parody proudly to an IRL friend and he said, "God, did you have to make it so grim at the end?" I was shocked by his grimace at the final stanza and he is a pretty liberal guy. I won't be ever writing for Hallmark, clearly.
The thing about Obama is I see his popularity as being particularly dangerous because it engenders an emotional and Team Dem trust that is undeserved when considering his realpolitik agendas and the Dem and administrative "it's all the Repubs fault, if only they would not block us" bullshit to the citizens is a sham sham sham. (there goes the sense of humor here).
Yes, the Repubs are obstructionists, especially the Tea Party crazies, but Obama is not rallying us behind any moral leadership. Words are cheap. The code word of "pragmatism" in his early days of health care selling out of single payer showed that Obama's community organizing was to make the Wall Street and military crowd very much at home with the ruling class Dems while seducing the citizenry to trust him (and I see, the poor guy as only being there because he agreed to be a Trojan Horse puppet to pacify the population (so pissed at cowboy Bush) as the oligarchs stripped down the constitution even farther than with the Bush/Cheney cabal) and Obama was willing to put our civil and economic rights and protections on the table for the fat cats (golf buddies like Jamie Dimon), meanwhile the media would keep on promoting his and Michelle's amiable celebrity personae and the Dem machine would focus on bad bad bad Repubs (no argument they are).
I don't know if Obama is power hungry or weak as a prez but at this point that is beyond the point. He has an appealing personality in a presidency post-Bush cabal that desperately needed intrepid and moral visionary leadership -- statesmanship not gamesmanship. The media branded him the next MLK/JFK with Oprah's fan-base support. The Dem Party vetted him as a hack politician with a populist and heroic veneer and the con continues to my dismay and rage.
I know attacking the Dem's favorite son, particularly the first black president, is disconcerting to progressives, but I am trying to make people see the BIG picture of Dem and mass media betrayal together. Obama and the Dem Party (as the Clintons) sold out average working class Americans with their deregulation and especially with Obama a willingness to defy the standing laws, domestic and international, and not prosecute massively criminal wealthy and military perpetrators.
I don't know if I can alter my voice or if I should, but I thank you for sharing with me and will ponder it. I do want an effective voice here, but I don't want a voice that encourages trust of the Dems and Obama that I honestly feel they don't deserve.
I also want to have a non-political identity on open salon, and as for the political one, less off-putting to many. Hmmmm. Can I have cake and eat, too???? Take care and have an awesome new year. Thanks again!!! Btw, great going on your own blogging! best, libby
I will delete my trig comment above without enuf paragraph marks and be back!
Anyway, in the bigger scheme of things I hear your take (not exclusive) that my doom and gloom, sky is falling messaging should have at least some humor-laden or at least less intense moments of commentary. Hmmmm. I know that Stewart and Colbert and Maddow and Hayes can pull that off. But I am not going for satire.
I showed my Silent Night parody proudly to an IRL friend and he said, "God, did you have to make it so grim at the end?" I was shocked by his grimace at the final stanza and he is a pretty liberal guy. I won't be ever writing for Hallmark, clearly.
The thing about Obama is I see his popularity as being particularly dangerous because it engenders an emotional and Team Dem trust that is undeserved when considering his realpolitik agendas and the Dem and administrative "it's all the Repubs fault, if only they would not block us" bullshit to the citizens is a sham sham sham. (there goes the sense of humor here).
Yes, the Repubs are obstructionists, especially the Tea Party crazies, but Obama is not rallying us behind any moral leadership. Words are cheap. The code word of "pragmatism" in his early days of health care selling out of single payer showed that Obama's community organizing was to make the Wall Street and military crowd very much at home with the ruling class Dems while seducing the citizenry to trust him (and I see, the poor guy as only being there because he agreed to be a Trojan Horse puppet to pacify the population (so pissed at cowboy Bush) as the oligarchs stripped down the constitution even farther than with the Bush/Cheney cabal) and Obama was willing to put our civil and economic rights and protections on the table for the fat cats (golf buddies like Jamie Dimon), meanwhile the media would keep on promoting his and Michelle's amiable celebrity personae and the Dem machine would focus on bad bad bad Repubs (no argument they are).
I don't know if Obama is power hungry or weak as a prez but at this point that is beyond the point. He has an appealing personality in a presidency post-Bush cabal that desperately needed intrepid and moral visionary leadership -- statesmanship not gamesmanship. The media branded him the next MLK/JFK with Oprah's fan-base support. The Dem Party vetted him as a hack politician with a populist and heroic veneer and the con continues to my dismay and rage.
I know attacking the Dem's favorite son, particularly the first black president, is disconcerting to progressives, but I am trying to make people see the BIG picture of Dem and mass media betrayal together. Obama and the Dem Party (as the Clintons) sold out average working class Americans with their deregulation and especially with Obama a willingness to defy the standing laws, domestic and international, and not prosecute massively criminal wealthy and military perpetrators.
I don't know if I can alter my voice or if I should, but I thank you for sharing with me and will ponder it. I do want an effective voice here, but I don't want a voice that encourages trust of the Dems and Obama that I honestly feel they don't deserve.
I also want to have a non-political identity on open salon, and as for the political one, less off-putting to many. Hmmmm. Can I have cake and eat, too???? Take care and have an awesome new year. Thanks again!!! Btw, great going on your own blogging! best, libby
I will delete my trig comment above without enuf paragraph marks and be back!
Hi, Libby
I guess my comment got lost in the shuffle.
Ben,
A question:
What are you attempting to accomplish?
I guess my comment got lost in the shuffle.
Ben,
A question:
What are you attempting to accomplish?
You're not political. You have no idea what politics are, what they mean, you never have. You are an ideologist completely ignorant of the fact, and a ranter who has no insight into that either. You give blogging a bad name, and do a disservice to liberalism by trying to deceive people into thinking that what is what you are. You also clearly take pleasure in your ignorance as you reject any and all attempts to gain any insight even when they have been offered to you by people far more patient with your subterfuge than I am.
I hardily agree that you should lay off the ideological sauce and try writing about other subjects, or at least have the dignity to change your on-line name to something that resembles your intentions.
I hardily agree that you should lay off the ideological sauce and try writing about other subjects, or at least have the dignity to change your on-line name to something that resembles your intentions.
kosh, still working my way down my friend! Looking forward to answering yours but bouncing out to work. Brrrrr. Frigid in NYC today. Fortunately if I take two subways I can stay underground. Re BS, letting sleeping dogs lie a nice way to go. later! best, libby
cross posts apparently. sigh. no time now. running to work.
You have nothing to be sad or sorry for. You are a truth-telling machine that I always find refreshing and interesting. There has to be guard dogs to guard our freedom and sometimes those dogs bark a little loud, but are damn sure a necessity to a democracy such as ours. Keep on keeping on my friend~
OK Libby, stay warm and I'll catch you later. I've got my own errands to run in a bit. It's still cold here but not by your standards.
Ben,
What are you trying to accomplish?
My question is literal.
This is what you think of Libby, but what does saying so accomplish?
Do you think saying so will get her to change?
Do you think saying so will enlighten anyone else who reads this thread?
Do you think saying so will damage her reputation?
Do you think saying so will enhance your reputation?
Are you operating under the impression that those who discourage Libby from leaving do so because they agree with her almost all the time, and that nothing personal is involved?
Are you simply venting?
Is venting very different from ranting?
I mean all of this quite literally.
Why are you doing this?
As strange as this may seem, this is not a loaded question, at least not intentionally, because I really do not know the answer and I really am curious about the answer.
Thank you.
Ben,
What are you trying to accomplish?
My question is literal.
This is what you think of Libby, but what does saying so accomplish?
Do you think saying so will get her to change?
Do you think saying so will enlighten anyone else who reads this thread?
Do you think saying so will damage her reputation?
Do you think saying so will enhance your reputation?
Are you operating under the impression that those who discourage Libby from leaving do so because they agree with her almost all the time, and that nothing personal is involved?
Are you simply venting?
Is venting very different from ranting?
I mean all of this quite literally.
Why are you doing this?
As strange as this may seem, this is not a loaded question, at least not intentionally, because I really do not know the answer and I really am curious about the answer.
Thank you.
Salaami:
If u don't get it by now, you ain't gonna. She's not a liberal or a conservative, she's a wing-nut wearing a mask. I find it offensive and covert. You can support her all you want.
If u don't get it by now, you ain't gonna. She's not a liberal or a conservative, she's a wing-nut wearing a mask. I find it offensive and covert. You can support her all you want.
Ben,
I'm not questioning your conclusions. You're entitled to those, aside from the conclusion that anyone here is basing their opinion of Libby's politics on her screen name, which is just ridiculous. Not what my questions are about at all.
I don't want to know what you think about Libby. What I want to know is what you hope to accomplish by revealing those conclusions.
I'm unusually literal-minded. If you want to know what I'm driving at, read my question. Chances are I just told you.
I'm not questioning your conclusions. You're entitled to those, aside from the conclusion that anyone here is basing their opinion of Libby's politics on her screen name, which is just ridiculous. Not what my questions are about at all.
I don't want to know what you think about Libby. What I want to know is what you hope to accomplish by revealing those conclusions.
I'm unusually literal-minded. If you want to know what I'm driving at, read my question. Chances are I just told you.
salaami:
You play dumb with a vengeance. I'll give you that. I'm not out to be her friend, or yours either. I prefer the truth. She deceives people. She is not a liberal. You have not engaged me; you have pursued your own assumptions. Liberalism means nothing to you apparently, but it does to me. She's a left wing ideologist who abuses liberalism it in order to seek the favor of those who don't know any better. I call that fraud. Why kiss her ass the way you do?
If somebody doesn't take her on to make it clear she's full of shit the naive and innocent will believe her, and there are plenty of them around. You're making a case you're one of them. She doesn't need you to defend her. She's not a little child who needs daddy's protection.
You play dumb with a vengeance. I'll give you that. I'm not out to be her friend, or yours either. I prefer the truth. She deceives people. She is not a liberal. You have not engaged me; you have pursued your own assumptions. Liberalism means nothing to you apparently, but it does to me. She's a left wing ideologist who abuses liberalism it in order to seek the favor of those who don't know any better. I call that fraud. Why kiss her ass the way you do?
If somebody doesn't take her on to make it clear she's full of shit the naive and innocent will believe her, and there are plenty of them around. You're making a case you're one of them. She doesn't need you to defend her. She's not a little child who needs daddy's protection.
Ben,
You tell me she doesn't need me to defend her. That's great, but irrelevant, because
I haven't defended her at all.
My comments to you aren't about her.
You did, however, answer my question, for which I thank you.
I disagree with one thing you said, and with an assumption that I think is implicit here.
"...the naive and innocent will believe her, and there are plenty of them around."
This is not a blog site of sheep. Most of the people I know here know very well what they believe. There are several people in this comment stream, myself included, who disagree with her virulently in key areas. I can name several, present company included (both of us), who believe that lesser evilism is at times a moral imperative. We aren't swayed that easily. And to assume that we allow her choice of name to define liberalism is ludicrous. Seriously, how impressionable do you think we all are? Do you read these people?
The assumption I perceive that I disagree with is that those who argue for her continued presence do so on the basis of being her followers (by which I mean politically). There are other things she brings to the table. Some are apolitical, such as her photographs and her in-depth discussions of what in her background contributed to her current psychological profile. Some of her work in this area is seriously good. Some actually are political, such as her in depth concentration on Edward Snowden, a position which has over time become more mainstream, to the point where clemency for him has now been advocated by some heavily Democratic donating Silicon Valley CEO's to the President directly and, in the past 48 hours, by the editorial board of the New York Times. I am very far from being a follower of hers but I grew to appreciate her work in this area.
You tell me she doesn't need me to defend her. That's great, but irrelevant, because
I haven't defended her at all.
My comments to you aren't about her.
You did, however, answer my question, for which I thank you.
I disagree with one thing you said, and with an assumption that I think is implicit here.
"...the naive and innocent will believe her, and there are plenty of them around."
This is not a blog site of sheep. Most of the people I know here know very well what they believe. There are several people in this comment stream, myself included, who disagree with her virulently in key areas. I can name several, present company included (both of us), who believe that lesser evilism is at times a moral imperative. We aren't swayed that easily. And to assume that we allow her choice of name to define liberalism is ludicrous. Seriously, how impressionable do you think we all are? Do you read these people?
The assumption I perceive that I disagree with is that those who argue for her continued presence do so on the basis of being her followers (by which I mean politically). There are other things she brings to the table. Some are apolitical, such as her photographs and her in-depth discussions of what in her background contributed to her current psychological profile. Some of her work in this area is seriously good. Some actually are political, such as her in depth concentration on Edward Snowden, a position which has over time become more mainstream, to the point where clemency for him has now been advocated by some heavily Democratic donating Silicon Valley CEO's to the President directly and, in the past 48 hours, by the editorial board of the New York Times. I am very far from being a follower of hers but I grew to appreciate her work in this area.
vzn, thanks for your commenting and ongoing support. I really am feeling re-grounded with the abundance of good will and acceptance from so many of my open salon fellows.
you seem to have more faith in the upcoming "realignment" than I do -- I expect basic impression management from the Obama administration and not much substance, but I am tired and weary of the Lucy and the football crumbs of hope routine from Obama and Congress. "Goring the sacred cow?" I don't think I deserve credit for the more left leaning beginning to happen more and more on open salon and other places in spite of the status quo-protecting mainstream corporate media and the rhetorical bullshit of Obama and other pols. There is just so much evidence of corruption and heartlessness even the idiot box can't distract from it.
vzn, I see the dysfunctional family of the nation as two parents, Dems and Repubs, so narcissistic and enmeshed in their own gamesmanship, destructive for everyone, gamesmanship that the children of the family, the citizens to whom they have pledged guardianship for, are being forsaken. Active addicts and co-addicts get locked in destructive spirals and they take their families down with them. The Dem party besides being corrupt and addicted to money is also co-addicted to the rabidly addicted Repubs and like a codependent mother or father sacrifices the welfare of the kids trying to make the family system limp along by ENABLING the addict and focusing so exclusively on the addict, ritualized into a reactive death dance instead of detaching and being proactive.
Again, at best Obama and Dems are co-addicts reactive not proactive and betraying those they should be taking care of in the country. Instead they are horrifyingly going along with screwing people out of jobs, homes, food, serious health care, etc. Pretending that is okay because they are doing it at a slower rate than the rabid Republicans. That is so not okay.
I don't think of right and left so much any more. I think of up and down. Up for the 1%ers and down for the rest of us. We have got to bond as a citizenry and not be played off against each other. Divide and conquer is what the one percenters and the good cop/bad cop act are doing -- when both corporate money parties are serving only one master, the rich we need to call them both out.
Hillary Clinton is coming down the pike and wanting her celebrity to help anoint her as next prez. Hillary, another super-crony of the oligarchy that is destroying our collective welfare. We seem to have learned little about the treachery of the Dem Party. MSNBC keeps minimizing or ignoring it. There are plenty who are commenting on the Repubs. Obama's poll assessments are dropping. Deservedly.
I feel like a counter-counter-revolutionary in a way. The counter-revolution is the sabotaging of the progress for the people here and abroad, there are the pols who like to talk about populism but don't deliver, especially start talking about it around election time, even talked about freedom with the Arab spring and then donated weapons and money to the most oppressive leaderships over in the Middle East and now Africa. Hypocrisy and serious murderous evil.
Our leaders like Obama talk about humanitarian interventions when they are doing the opposite. Bringing the freedom to die young, the freedom to be exterminated by drones, the freedom to become refugees, the freedom to starve, the freedom to be tortured, the freedom to be oppressed, etc. to the global family of humans. Look at the bloody clipboard of countries in the wake of the US war OF terrorism, not really on it.
vzn, thanks for commenting and listening to more of my perspective. take care!!!
best, libby
you seem to have more faith in the upcoming "realignment" than I do -- I expect basic impression management from the Obama administration and not much substance, but I am tired and weary of the Lucy and the football crumbs of hope routine from Obama and Congress. "Goring the sacred cow?" I don't think I deserve credit for the more left leaning beginning to happen more and more on open salon and other places in spite of the status quo-protecting mainstream corporate media and the rhetorical bullshit of Obama and other pols. There is just so much evidence of corruption and heartlessness even the idiot box can't distract from it.
vzn, I see the dysfunctional family of the nation as two parents, Dems and Repubs, so narcissistic and enmeshed in their own gamesmanship, destructive for everyone, gamesmanship that the children of the family, the citizens to whom they have pledged guardianship for, are being forsaken. Active addicts and co-addicts get locked in destructive spirals and they take their families down with them. The Dem party besides being corrupt and addicted to money is also co-addicted to the rabidly addicted Repubs and like a codependent mother or father sacrifices the welfare of the kids trying to make the family system limp along by ENABLING the addict and focusing so exclusively on the addict, ritualized into a reactive death dance instead of detaching and being proactive.
Again, at best Obama and Dems are co-addicts reactive not proactive and betraying those they should be taking care of in the country. Instead they are horrifyingly going along with screwing people out of jobs, homes, food, serious health care, etc. Pretending that is okay because they are doing it at a slower rate than the rabid Republicans. That is so not okay.
I don't think of right and left so much any more. I think of up and down. Up for the 1%ers and down for the rest of us. We have got to bond as a citizenry and not be played off against each other. Divide and conquer is what the one percenters and the good cop/bad cop act are doing -- when both corporate money parties are serving only one master, the rich we need to call them both out.
Hillary Clinton is coming down the pike and wanting her celebrity to help anoint her as next prez. Hillary, another super-crony of the oligarchy that is destroying our collective welfare. We seem to have learned little about the treachery of the Dem Party. MSNBC keeps minimizing or ignoring it. There are plenty who are commenting on the Repubs. Obama's poll assessments are dropping. Deservedly.
I feel like a counter-counter-revolutionary in a way. The counter-revolution is the sabotaging of the progress for the people here and abroad, there are the pols who like to talk about populism but don't deliver, especially start talking about it around election time, even talked about freedom with the Arab spring and then donated weapons and money to the most oppressive leaderships over in the Middle East and now Africa. Hypocrisy and serious murderous evil.
Our leaders like Obama talk about humanitarian interventions when they are doing the opposite. Bringing the freedom to die young, the freedom to be exterminated by drones, the freedom to become refugees, the freedom to starve, the freedom to be tortured, the freedom to be oppressed, etc. to the global family of humans. Look at the bloody clipboard of countries in the wake of the US war OF terrorism, not really on it.
vzn, thanks for commenting and listening to more of my perspective. take care!!!
best, libby
hannu, thanks for visiting and commenting. yes, there is a shift happening thanks to Snowden, but I maintain that so many of us are lost to the proverbial boiled frog state of mass surveillance that it has simply become the new "normal". The pope seems to be doing some moral ass-kicking. We need some political statespeople to do the same. Cronyism and lobby-bribing has tethered our faux-leaders into impotency or back-stabbing opportunism on the part of the Dems and front-stabbing opportunism on the part of the Republicans. Yes, a new year. Let's hope there is REAL progress. best, libby
kosh, at long last to your analysis of my analysis. I think I have attempted to respond to this before and didn't satisfy you and trig and I am sorry. My personal role right now is doing what I am doing. Sharing as many realpolitik facts as I can.
I think you are more generous in terms of the degree of seriousness you assess that is being diagnosed by people. I grant they are getting it more and more with the economy in such crisis and it is impacting more and more lives. But my diagnosis has to do with the bankruptcy of both the corporate parties. The present leadership of the Dem party is captured by the oligarchs as well as the Republican party.
I would like to see the Dem members of that party resign. Kick that party in the proverbial ass. The system is now so corrupt that generates politicians in this country that fixing it from within is not possible. But the population is not outraged enough and willing to risk letting go of the seductive "lesser evilism" game of enabling. In alanon they say, the secret is not in winning, it is in not playing any more.
It's not a hard line to see, though the mainstream media denies it is there. Good vs. evil. The heartless austerity monstrousness coming out of Congress is horrifying on both sides of the aisle. Collusion with good cop bad cop bullshit.
I don't see the Dem pols seriously championing our welfare and our constitution as well. You can't count a few of them doing good things on one hand with fingers left over.
Maybe now that it is closer to election year we'll get some Obama crumbs of rhetoric along with the Dems and even less rabid Repubs who know how pissed off the people are. Yet they're still not stimulating the economy, using executive authority to help people. $85 billion each month goes from the FED to the same banksters who crashed the economy and are screwing people even more now than before. The economic criminals are continuing their criminality undeterred thanks to the Obama administration. WTF????
American interests abroad are the interests of the oligarchs and their psychopathic profiteering.
Having hope in Obama and the Dems is not part of my prescription for recovery, kosh. An indictment of them is part of my diagnosis and I don't think most people are willing to go that far. Until they are there won't be my prescription for recovery. Dump Obama and the Dem party -- it is corrupt and amoral. We need a coalition to build a third party. We need people to boycott sh*t propaganda tv messaging, too. It is hard when the cherry-picking happens. This is what is wrong with those horrible Repubs but let's reframe what Obama has done and apologize for it along with the rest of the Dem party.
Meanwhile, the next election the pendulum will go back to the Repubs maybe in spite of their colossal stupidity and cruelty, because the faux-progressives failed because they really weren't progressives. Neoliberal opportunists who cronied up for money and power and for another term at the trough.
kosh, worked almost a double shift. 11 degrees now in NY. Going to bed after responding to scanner. Thanks for commenting.
as for some hysterical backlash from a couple Joe McCarthy types, the serenity prayer is useful as I said in my blog above. Please don't play apologist for me with them, at least on my blog thread. Appreciate your intent, but enough. Thanks.
best, libby
I think you are more generous in terms of the degree of seriousness you assess that is being diagnosed by people. I grant they are getting it more and more with the economy in such crisis and it is impacting more and more lives. But my diagnosis has to do with the bankruptcy of both the corporate parties. The present leadership of the Dem party is captured by the oligarchs as well as the Republican party.
I would like to see the Dem members of that party resign. Kick that party in the proverbial ass. The system is now so corrupt that generates politicians in this country that fixing it from within is not possible. But the population is not outraged enough and willing to risk letting go of the seductive "lesser evilism" game of enabling. In alanon they say, the secret is not in winning, it is in not playing any more.
It's not a hard line to see, though the mainstream media denies it is there. Good vs. evil. The heartless austerity monstrousness coming out of Congress is horrifying on both sides of the aisle. Collusion with good cop bad cop bullshit.
I don't see the Dem pols seriously championing our welfare and our constitution as well. You can't count a few of them doing good things on one hand with fingers left over.
Maybe now that it is closer to election year we'll get some Obama crumbs of rhetoric along with the Dems and even less rabid Repubs who know how pissed off the people are. Yet they're still not stimulating the economy, using executive authority to help people. $85 billion each month goes from the FED to the same banksters who crashed the economy and are screwing people even more now than before. The economic criminals are continuing their criminality undeterred thanks to the Obama administration. WTF????
American interests abroad are the interests of the oligarchs and their psychopathic profiteering.
Having hope in Obama and the Dems is not part of my prescription for recovery, kosh. An indictment of them is part of my diagnosis and I don't think most people are willing to go that far. Until they are there won't be my prescription for recovery. Dump Obama and the Dem party -- it is corrupt and amoral. We need a coalition to build a third party. We need people to boycott sh*t propaganda tv messaging, too. It is hard when the cherry-picking happens. This is what is wrong with those horrible Repubs but let's reframe what Obama has done and apologize for it along with the rest of the Dem party.
Meanwhile, the next election the pendulum will go back to the Repubs maybe in spite of their colossal stupidity and cruelty, because the faux-progressives failed because they really weren't progressives. Neoliberal opportunists who cronied up for money and power and for another term at the trough.
kosh, worked almost a double shift. 11 degrees now in NY. Going to bed after responding to scanner. Thanks for commenting.
as for some hysterical backlash from a couple Joe McCarthy types, the serenity prayer is useful as I said in my blog above. Please don't play apologist for me with them, at least on my blog thread. Appreciate your intent, but enough. Thanks.
best, libby
scanner, the bravest of the brave, the most generous of the generous. Thanks for being such a role model for me, of class, goodness, intelligence, patience and heart. Your grace is contagious and thanks, I needed some just now.
I need to get some sleep and then I look forward to surfacing from this empowering experience and reading blogs of my fellow open saloners. I chose to follow up on this amazing thread first.
when I came back from vacation, i had this urgency that I had to read all I had missed and get more info out there and I put such pressure on myself to get back in the muckraking zone. I felt like Lucy and the chocolate factory and the ramp had just been sped up -- my own doing, of course, probably can call it codependency.
But my psychological "machinery" suddenly protested! Needed to review the situation. The support I got in doing that really steadied me and grounded me. I am still processing but off to a really good start thanks to the energy extended. Being accepted by people, even people who don't understand me or agree with me, but are willing to accept me, and being cheered on so robustly by those who do. That is precious and to be celebrated and cherished.
take care. best, libby
I need to get some sleep and then I look forward to surfacing from this empowering experience and reading blogs of my fellow open saloners. I chose to follow up on this amazing thread first.
when I came back from vacation, i had this urgency that I had to read all I had missed and get more info out there and I put such pressure on myself to get back in the muckraking zone. I felt like Lucy and the chocolate factory and the ramp had just been sped up -- my own doing, of course, probably can call it codependency.
But my psychological "machinery" suddenly protested! Needed to review the situation. The support I got in doing that really steadied me and grounded me. I am still processing but off to a really good start thanks to the energy extended. Being accepted by people, even people who don't understand me or agree with me, but are willing to accept me, and being cheered on so robustly by those who do. That is precious and to be celebrated and cherished.
take care. best, libby
ps to kosh, i recognize how generous your assessment was of me and my contributions, please don't doubt that and thank you very much, my friend. I look forward to us directly communicating more and more. Over our common denominators and our differences. to be continued. best, libby xxx
Libby,
For what it's worth, I'm not being an apologist for you. My responses to Ben really aren't about you at all; they're about Ben.
There's a lot of personal attacking done on OS. With some people, I guess it's a question of temperament. As a phenomenon, particularly as a politics-based phenomenon, I disapprove of it, less on moral grounds (just because I don't think I necessarily have a say there) than on tactical grounds.
Words have consequences. My question is: What consequences is an attacker looking for? Ben's not stupid, so I thought it was a question worth asking. If someone potentially gets hurt, there at least should be a payoff other than the dubious pleasure of inflicting pain. What's the payoff?
I didn't see one. I wondered what he saw. Now I know, though I disagree as to its existence. At least the basis for our disagreement is clearer now.
For what it's worth, I'm not being an apologist for you. My responses to Ben really aren't about you at all; they're about Ben.
There's a lot of personal attacking done on OS. With some people, I guess it's a question of temperament. As a phenomenon, particularly as a politics-based phenomenon, I disapprove of it, less on moral grounds (just because I don't think I necessarily have a say there) than on tactical grounds.
Words have consequences. My question is: What consequences is an attacker looking for? Ben's not stupid, so I thought it was a question worth asking. If someone potentially gets hurt, there at least should be a payoff other than the dubious pleasure of inflicting pain. What's the payoff?
I didn't see one. I wondered what he saw. Now I know, though I disagree as to its existence. At least the basis for our disagreement is clearer now.
Hey, kosh! God bless us every one.
There are two intentions of human beings I have read, the intent to protect and the intent to explore. the latter is more courageous and more foreign to my background and a tough path for me to slog. successful conflict resolution was not often role-modeled in the family background or in my many workplaces.
More power to you on your quest.
There were people in my past who popped off at me irrationally about how irrational I was by expressing my feelings. I introverted so much in sudden shame from their confusing and insulting outrage that I didn't rally and call them on their own irrationality, as they accused me of not being rational enuf. What was wrong with that picture? Doublestandardism, whatever I say I am always to be regarded as wise and rational, even if I am flinghing insulting judgments personally and not addressing facts and ideas. You know the type, those who can't tolerate intolerance, etc., and intolerantly act upon it. Free country for those who freely speak the same ideas and purposes.
Re the blogging roller coaster we all can get on, and that I was on so intensely since I have been here. One of my favorite quotes is from St. Francis, "Nothing to excess, including moderation." Mind the work-in-progressness of our existence.
I am not a black and white thinker -- but it is high time to call out the line between right and wrong. Just because so many have crossed the line, doesn't mean the line has moved, they get to move it. Empathy vs. heartlessness is easy to recognize. just because the heartlessness is institutionalized and so-called "legal" or lesser evil doesn't make it less morally wrong.
When I was a teacher I used to put the list heading "God Loves You" on the blackboard. I was not a great disciplinarian as a teacher but I tried. Middle school kids were lovable but a handful. If you made it to the list on the board you got a detention. The first listee for my new policy declared, "Why do you write God loves you????" A quiet one in the corner popped out with, "Cuz nobody else does." I was impressed with his nerve and sympatico and grateful. Hah!
best, libby
There are two intentions of human beings I have read, the intent to protect and the intent to explore. the latter is more courageous and more foreign to my background and a tough path for me to slog. successful conflict resolution was not often role-modeled in the family background or in my many workplaces.
More power to you on your quest.
There were people in my past who popped off at me irrationally about how irrational I was by expressing my feelings. I introverted so much in sudden shame from their confusing and insulting outrage that I didn't rally and call them on their own irrationality, as they accused me of not being rational enuf. What was wrong with that picture? Doublestandardism, whatever I say I am always to be regarded as wise and rational, even if I am flinghing insulting judgments personally and not addressing facts and ideas. You know the type, those who can't tolerate intolerance, etc., and intolerantly act upon it. Free country for those who freely speak the same ideas and purposes.
Re the blogging roller coaster we all can get on, and that I was on so intensely since I have been here. One of my favorite quotes is from St. Francis, "Nothing to excess, including moderation." Mind the work-in-progressness of our existence.
I am not a black and white thinker -- but it is high time to call out the line between right and wrong. Just because so many have crossed the line, doesn't mean the line has moved, they get to move it. Empathy vs. heartlessness is easy to recognize. just because the heartlessness is institutionalized and so-called "legal" or lesser evil doesn't make it less morally wrong.
When I was a teacher I used to put the list heading "God Loves You" on the blackboard. I was not a great disciplinarian as a teacher but I tried. Middle school kids were lovable but a handful. If you made it to the list on the board you got a detention. The first listee for my new policy declared, "Why do you write God loves you????" A quiet one in the corner popped out with, "Cuz nobody else does." I was impressed with his nerve and sympatico and grateful. Hah!
best, libby
Libby,
On domestic policy, you and I mostly agree on right and wrong.
That's not the issue. That's diagnosis. I told you already - our differences are in prescribing remedies.
You want to tell me the Democrats are screwing up? Agreed. You want to tell me the Democrats are not, for example, doing enough about narrowing the insane gaps in income we have in this country at this point? I rail about that more than you do.
Now what?
Telling us what not to do isn't enough.
Where I live, on a state level, the Republicans have turned out to be much, much, much worse than the Democrats. Just to give you one quick example, we now have teachers all over the state wanting to leave the state to work. In spending per pupil, we've gone from something like 23rd to 48th. Unemployment benefits? Cut and shortened. This place has gone insane.
We go into the 2014 elections. What's your advice?
Find Green candidates, assuming there are any, and vote for them? Regardless of what it does to the election results?
Sure, I get that it is not a good idea to reward people who are betraying us in many ways in any form. That wouldn't be moral.
I also get that it is not a good idea to desert the children of my state and to leave the unemployed in my state to starve. There is real hunger here. That also wouldn't be moral.
You can't resolve that issue by ignoring it.
I'm not telling you that your solution isn't moral. Really, that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that you aren't addressing this objection.
If the consequences of what you suggest are that students do terribly for a couple of years and the unemployed don't eat for a couple of years and the long term result - as far as you can predict - is that we get far better governance, making those sacrifices worth it,
Make that case.
But please, please, please address the sacrifices involved, don't ignore them.
Ignoring them is the single biggest threat to your credibility.
I am dead serious.
On domestic policy, you and I mostly agree on right and wrong.
That's not the issue. That's diagnosis. I told you already - our differences are in prescribing remedies.
You want to tell me the Democrats are screwing up? Agreed. You want to tell me the Democrats are not, for example, doing enough about narrowing the insane gaps in income we have in this country at this point? I rail about that more than you do.
Now what?
Telling us what not to do isn't enough.
Where I live, on a state level, the Republicans have turned out to be much, much, much worse than the Democrats. Just to give you one quick example, we now have teachers all over the state wanting to leave the state to work. In spending per pupil, we've gone from something like 23rd to 48th. Unemployment benefits? Cut and shortened. This place has gone insane.
We go into the 2014 elections. What's your advice?
Find Green candidates, assuming there are any, and vote for them? Regardless of what it does to the election results?
Sure, I get that it is not a good idea to reward people who are betraying us in many ways in any form. That wouldn't be moral.
I also get that it is not a good idea to desert the children of my state and to leave the unemployed in my state to starve. There is real hunger here. That also wouldn't be moral.
You can't resolve that issue by ignoring it.
I'm not telling you that your solution isn't moral. Really, that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that you aren't addressing this objection.
If the consequences of what you suggest are that students do terribly for a couple of years and the unemployed don't eat for a couple of years and the long term result - as far as you can predict - is that we get far better governance, making those sacrifices worth it,
Make that case.
But please, please, please address the sacrifices involved, don't ignore them.
Ignoring them is the single biggest threat to your credibility.
I am dead serious.
Saalami:
You not only play dumb with a vengeance, you are a slow learner. An ideologue doesn't give shit about politics. They only care about whether you agree with them. You need only look at what is happening in the GOP to see them at work.
Their "ideals" are superior to anything else. That is what makes them demagogues. It also makes them morally superior. You're going to have to start to figure this out on your own if you're ever going to get serious and stop blowing smoke up the ass of people who in the end could give a shit about anything but their own self-righteous indignation.
They will get their converts among those similarly driven to control and manipulate. Take a good look at her response, if she gives one. It's all about whether you are a good little disciple.
Best, Ben Sen
You not only play dumb with a vengeance, you are a slow learner. An ideologue doesn't give shit about politics. They only care about whether you agree with them. You need only look at what is happening in the GOP to see them at work.
Their "ideals" are superior to anything else. That is what makes them demagogues. It also makes them morally superior. You're going to have to start to figure this out on your own if you're ever going to get serious and stop blowing smoke up the ass of people who in the end could give a shit about anything but their own self-righteous indignation.
They will get their converts among those similarly driven to control and manipulate. Take a good look at her response, if she gives one. It's all about whether you are a good little disciple.
Best, Ben Sen
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